Law of the Gun OOC

[Thumper]

I’m not inclined to backward in time and retroactively alter events/storyline. I just wanted clarification since I was left really scratching my nugget.

I was so new to the rules/game when we did the Austin Shooting Contest that I didn’t catch this before.

[jemmus]

Thanks for catching that. Now we know. Not that we're expecting any gunfire any time soon....

[jemmus]

Sorry for the slow GM posts. I foolishly thought things were back to normal at work for the long run.

[Thumper]

For those events that you have awarded XP in game during the Strange Pursuit thread, do you want us to apply those XP when we hit desired thresholds, or shall we wait for "downtime" to skill advance?

DT has been practicing a lot of Pistol and Rifle shooting while exploring whether he will train in Fast Draw (or in Tracking). I'd like to level up either pistol or rifle now using recently granted XP, if that's permissible.

[jemmus]

Horses in gunfights
Gun skill indicates that the horse is
familiar with the sound of a gunshot and
probably won't panic when one is fired near
it. Normally, a horse makes an Intelligence
check to not panic in a gunfight. A horse with
Gun skill use it skill score instead. If the
horse's Intelligence is equal to or higher than
its Gun skill, increase its Gun skill to be
three points higher than its Intelligence.
p. 56

The terms "panic" and "near" aren't defined. Let's say that near is within around 2 yards of the horse. And that a panicked horse may rear, kick, (backwards, toward the sound of the gunshot), or run, depending on the circumstances and/or offscreen GM rolls. Riding skill successes should help control a panicked horse.

[Grognardsw]

That reminds me, if someone is shot on a horse, particularly multiple times, I’d say a Riding skill check is needed per that skill’s description of staying in the saddle in a challenging situation. What do you think?

[Grognardsw]

And that reminds me of another rule I raised a time ago in the Rules Discussion thread…

I was pondering an aspect of the rules that felt odd. The Speed after a Fast Draw rule seems counter-intuitive. It makes more random an attribute that should reflect the more skilled gunman.

Say Matt Dillon (renown marshal in Gunsmoke) with a 25 Pistol and Fast Draw goes against a desperate amateur with only a 10 Fast Draw. Dillon rolls a 1 on Fast Draw ( the best roll one can get in most circumstances), and amateur barely makes his with a 10. Yet now amateur has a 10 Speed while Dillon a 1. Desperate amateur and Dillon both hip shoot, but Dillon gets bested in speed and shoots second!?

(To add insult, Dillon can add 5 to his Speed cause 25 is 5 above 20. A nice plus, but he still loses to amateur’s 10.)

It would seem more logical that the Fast Draw skill number be used as speed, or revert to Coordination. Each option plays to the skill, as opposed to disregarding it in favor of randomized luck that defies skill.

Am I misinterpreting the Speed - Fast Draw?

[jemmus]

I think weapon Speed only applies in a Shootout Turn. With 10 seconds of time, divided into split-second counts. That's where the Speed of the weapon comes in. Chars have to choose between Fanfire to Careful shots, and every kind of shot in between. Fastdraw skill and success rolls too.

As compared to a Combat Round. Ten seconds, with the winner having two shots per turn, and the losers getting to answer back with two shots. Either kind of can be gnarly and highly lethal.

[Thumper]

As far as further damage from falling off a horse, pg 59 (bronco busting) has damage effects from being thrown from a bucking horse. I would think a fall from a jumping or galloping horse would have the same effect.

It’s subdual damage though…up to unconsciousness.

[jemmus]

And that reminds me of another rule I raised a time ago in the Rules Discussion thread…

I was pondering an aspect of the rules that felt odd. The Speed after a Fast Draw rule seems counter-intuitive. It makes more random an attribute that should reflect the more skilled gunman.

Say Matt Dillon (renown marshal in Gunsmoke) with a 25 Pistol and Fast Draw goes against a desperate amateur with only a 10 Fast Draw. Dillon rolls a 1 on Fast Draw ( the best roll one can get in most circumstances), and amateur barely makes his with a 10. Yet now amateur has a 10 Speed while Dillon a 1. Desperate amateur and Dillon both hip shoot, but Dillon gets bested in speed and shoots second!?

(To add insult, Dillon can add 5 to his Speed cause 25 is 5 above 20. A nice plus, but he still loses to amateur’s 10.)

It would seem more logical that the Fast Draw skill number be used as speed, or revert to Coordination. Each option plays to the skill, as opposed to disregarding it in favor of randomized luck that defies skill.

Am I misinterpreting the Speed - Fast Draw?

Here's the actual rule.
When a character uses a fast draw, his
speed on his next shot is the number that he
rolled for his Fast Draw skill check. After
that first shot, the character's speed is once
again his Coordination score. If a character
uses a normal draw, his speed is always his
Coordination score.
It seems to me that it works out, because the Fast Draw roll is acting like the Coordination in a non-fast draw situation. If two characters' actions occur on the same Count in the Shootout Turn, they character with the higher Speed acts first. (Speed is generally determined by Coordination, with modifiers such as the weapon's speed, wounds, and actions such as walking, running, etc. (Table 8)). The character with the higher Coordination number starts with the faster base score, before the modifiers are applied. With fast draw, the higher successful roll is analogous. When determining Speed and Counts, higher is better. But it throws of the "you want to roll low" basis of the rest of the game.

In Bushido (the only other crunchy rules system I know), you also want to roll under a certain score. The amount you roll under it is called the "Effect Number." In Grognardsw's example, the greenhorn needed a 10 or under, and rolled a 10. The Effect Number is 10 - 10 = 0. Where Dillon's Effect Number was 25 - 1 = 24. So he ends up have a much higher Speed than the sugarfoot. If you guys like that system, we could adopt it. It would keep the "roll under" basis of the game, and probably more accurate reflect differences in Fast Draw skill levels. On the other hand, BH's RAW system has a kind of uncertainty wild randomness that might be good for a Wild West game with Shootout Turn one second long.

Thoughts?

[jemmus]

That reminds me, if someone is shot on a horse, particularly multiple times, I’d say a Riding skill check is needed per that skill’s description of staying in the saddle in a challenging situation. What do you think?

Just bumping this for people to weigh in. The RAW doesn't address this situation, that I see. The rider would just keep riding normally until his Strength goes to 0 from wounds and goes unconscious, or he takes a mortal wound. Then he would fall from the saddle (or slump on the horse's neck or drop onto its rump, according to what the dice tell GM. Being dragged with a boot caught in a stirrup is also a possibility).

As far as further damage from falling off a horse, pg 59 (bronco busting) has damage effects from being thrown from a bucking horse. I would think a fall from a jumping or galloping horse would have the same effect.

It’s subdual damage though…up to unconsciousness.

Let's make that a house rule. It's fits in well from common sense. Updating that thread.

[Thumper]

I could see multiple serious wounds causing a rider to have a chance at falling from a trotting, loping, or galloping horse. Not just a first one.

[jemmus]

Horses in gunfights
This hasn't come up yet, but please note the rules on horses in gunfights.
Gun skill indicates that the horse is
familiar with the sound of a gunshot and
probably won't panic when one is fired near
it . Normally, a horse makes an Intelligence
check to not panic in a gunfight. A horse with
Gun skill use it skill score instead. If the
horse's Intelligence is equal to or higher than
its Gun skill, increase its Gun skill to be
three points higher than its Intelligence.
(p. 57)

[jemmus]

Sorry, I'd thought I'd get to do a lot more posting this weekend, but an old friend from Peace Corps days in Yap, Micronesia in the 80s was in the area and managed to track down my contact information. (And BH combat rules are about like miniature wargaming rules (well, it was originally was a miniatures game). GM posts can't just be on the fly and willy-nilly, they need to provide careful and accurate information. Especially when there's a possibility that a gunplay situation might come up....

[Thumper]

Before engaging the Sheppard Gang, I’d really like for our characters to positively identify (if able) either:
1) Phineas or the Sheppards are actually the illegal squatters on this ranch
2) horse brands are Wells Fargo or find evidence in the corral area or barn of recent illegal rebranding (healing burns over old brands, lots of different rebranding irons, etc.)

Gotta make absolutely certain these people here are not a mistaken identity. All fingers point to we found the right ranch, but DT will want to put eyes on bad guys or a rebranding operation before proceeding.

[Thumper]

We haven’t really settled how we’re going to kick the hornets nest with the Shepherd Brothers gang. We’re not all in place yet, but the PCs would need to discuss the plan prior to going separate ways…

Once all previously stated actions are resolved, DT intends to signal Andreas/William on the South side that he is moving in. From the shed, DT intends to stealth up to the SE corner of the house and listen from the side of the S-SE window, from below all the windows on the East, and finally stop at the NE corner (but out of sight from the dogs on the North porch). If all is quiet inside, he may take quick peeks inside.

The signal for finding and identifying a bandit inside will be raising his carbine horizontally over his head. If something is not right about the situation, it’s an exaggerated arm extended shrug. Other common hand signals will be worked out.

[Bluetongue]

Horses in gunfights
This hasn't come up yet, but please note the rules on horses in gunfights.

I trust this is true for npc/Comanche riders, otherwise only characters are penalised.

[jemmus]

Yes, it applies to NPCs too. But in the Charlie and Ezekiel game, Comanches have great Riding skill. The sample Indians in the rulebook have 17 Riding. Comanches are the best horsemen in North America, so most of them have higher riding than that.

[Rex]

I will be out of touch Saturday noonish through Monday. Have a great weekend everyone!

[Thumper]

I’m currently reading “Empire of the Summer Moon”. Fascinating account of Commanche history and their interaction with Texans.

Written by a historian, but a very interesting tale. Available on Audiobook as well. The audiobook narration is excellent.