OOC I

[dmw71]

Does that mean we can advance with our chargen, then?

Yes, absolutely! Let me know if you have any questions along the way.

[dmw71]

Are you leaving the stat penalty/bonus adjustments for high or low scores btb? Or did you house rule that and I can't find it?

Yes, the ability score modifiers are by the book.

I did mention house ruling them to you in another discussion somewhere, but decided against it. I still like it, but it would probably end up being unnecessarily confusing.

[dmw71]

I'm not clear on how the arcane spell selection process works.

Honestly, I'm not surprised. I was tired when I was working on them last night so I imagine they're a confused mess.

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tl;dr
Basically, what I'm trying to do here is give the magic-user the ability to pick which one spell he's going to cast that day from the largest number of spells possible.

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For purposes of this example, I will walk step through the process to determine starting spells using the "MU w/ 16 intelligence" you provided in your question.

For starters, all magic-users will automatically know the 'read magic' spell.

Since a magic-user has a will automatically know a number of spells equal to the bonus number of languages from their intelligence score (16 = +2), this magic-user will also automatically know two additional spells from the list... in other words, pick two spells and you automatically know them.

There are 12 total 1st-level spells, and the example magic-user already knows three of them ('read magic' plus the two freebies), so there are nine remaining spells.

For each of the nine remaining spells, roll a 20 (remember to list the name of the spell you're checking for in the roll itself in order for it to count!). If the result of the d20 is 15 or less (equal to or less than the arcane caster's Intelligence score (16) minus the spell level (-1)), the magic-user will also know that spell. Let's walk through it...

Following is the complete list of 1st-level spells. For sake of simplicity, we'll say that the two automatic spells the example magic-user selects from their Intelligence bonus will be the first two. I will strike them (plus 'read magic' out), leaving the nine remaining spells:
Charm Person -- known
Detect Magic -- known
Floating Disc
Hold Portal
Light
Magic Missile
Protection from Evil
Read Languages
Read Magic -- known
Shield
Sleep
Ventriloquism

I would then use the following nine macros to determine if I knew each spell (I don't think the die roller likes it when you use the "<" sign, hence using the 1-15 range):
Know Floating Disc (1-15): [1d20]
Know Hold Portal (1-15): [1d20]
Know Light (1-15): [1d20]
Know Magic Missile (1-15): [1d20]
Know Protection from Evil (1-15): [1d20]
Know Read Languages (1-15): [1d20]
Know Shield (1-15): [1d20]
Know Sleep (1-15): [1d20]
Know Ventriloquism (1-15): [1d20]


Known:
Know Floating Disc (1-15): [1d20] = 4
Know Hold Portal (1-15): [1d20] = 7
Know Light (1-15): [1d20] = 8
Know Protection from Evil (1-15): [1d20] = 9
Know Read Languages (1-15): [1d20] = 9
Know Shield (1-15): [1d20] = 13
Know Sleep (1-15): [1d20] = 2
Know Ventriloquism (1-15): [1d20] = 12

Unknown:
Know Magic Missile (1-15): [1d20] = 20

So, after after checking for each spell, it turns out our magic-user with a 16 Intelligence knows every 1st-level spell except for 'magic missile'.


What does this all means?
Even though the example magic-user knows how to cast every spell except one, he will still only be able to cast one of them per day (1 spell point).

The key here is, the magic-user will not have to memorize the spells he knows. He has one spell point, and he can use it any time he wants to to cast any spell he knows. Now, let's be honest here, a majority of the time that spell will be 'sleep' or 'charm person' or something more common and effective, but what if the group finds themselves stuck in a dead end, and one of the walls has some strange writing on it? The 'magic-user' might be tempted in the case to use his one spell for that day to cast 'read languages' (a spell there's little chance of him ever memorizing in the first place otherwise).

I hope that makes sense? If not, please let me know.

[Zhym]

That makes sense. Oversimplified, the rules for new characters are:

1. All arcane casters know Read Magic.
2. The player picks one additional spell for each bonus language based on Intelligence. The caster knows these spells without rolling to see if they can be learned.
3. The player rolls (d20+spell level vs. Intelligence)* for each remaining spell to see which of them, if any, the caster knows.
4. On a subsequent encounter (via scroll or spellbook) with a spell the caster couldn't learn on a previous attempt, the caster can try (once) to learn it, at a +1 penalty per time he has tried to learn the spell, including the current attempt. That penalty is in addition to the roll adjustment for the spell level. For example, the second attempt to learn a first-level spell would be at +3 on the die roll: +1 because it's a first-level spell, and +2 because it is the second attempt at learning the spell.

Casting is ad hoc. A caster has spell points equal to the levels of spells known in the BtB tables. Each level of spell cast uses a spell point. For example, a third-level MU would have 4 spell points: 2 for each 1st-level spell and 1 for the 2nd-level spell. These could be used each day to cast four 1st-level spells, two 2-level spells, or two 1st-level and one 2nd-level spells.

Is that about right?

*Technically, (d20 vs. Intelligence - spell level), but addition is better than subtraction, and I'm oversimplifying.

[dmw71]

That makes sense. Oversimplified, the rules for new characters are:

Psssh. I guess...

In all seriousness, though, I will probably re-work the entire 'Spells' thread and borrow from your explanation. Thanks!

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So, the rules have been simplified to the point where they can actually be understood.

How do you feel they work?

[Alethan]

I like the ad hoc spell ability. I've always felt the idea that you have to limit yourself to one specific spell at the beginning of the day was crap. This seems like a good way to mitigate it.

[Zhym]

I like it too.

I noticed that B/X don't have any tables for determining height, weight, age, etc. I assume we just make up what we want?
Also, do we select what languages our characters know at character creation, or are languages learned in the course of adventuring?

[dmw71]

I noticed that B/X don't have any tables for determining height, weight, age, etc. I assume we just make up what we want?

Feel free to determine these however you'd like (e.g. borrowing from another edition is fine). As long as they're withing reason, I'm fine with whatever you decide, it's only important that they're listed. -- updated this.

Also, do we select what languages our characters know at character creation, or are languages learned in the course of adventuring?

Any extra languages will already be known, and can be selected by the player. -- added this.


Good questions.

[Zhym]

Thanks. Will there be any other human languages in your campaign, or will all humans speak Common?

[dmw71]

Thanks. Will there be any other human languages in your campaign, or will all humans speak Common?

For this, we'll stick with just Common.

[OGRE MAGE]

I dig that spell point business.

Can I change my mind on Class?

[dmw71]

I dig that spell point business.

Can I change my mind on Class?

Ha. Of course. No one is set on their class until the game actually starts.

[GreyWolfVT]

Im sticking to my class unless we want to classify it a race and not a class

[Alethan]

Im sticking to my class unless we want to classify it a race and not a class

Wouldn't be a very good B/X game if we didn't have race-as-class!

[GreyWolfVT]

Im sticking to my class unless we want to classify it a race and not a class

Wouldn't be a very good B/X game if we didn't have race-as-class!

aye I know that it's pretty much the only thing that drives me crazy about BX, aside from that I like the edition(s).

[Zhym]

Is there any particular source we should use for prices of items that aren't in the B/X lists?

[dmw71]

For now, we're going to stick with just what's listed in B book.

Except for the potions of healing, which are 50gp each.

[Zhym]

So if it's not in the B book, it's not available for purchase? Can characters have "flavor" items (e.g., pen & paper for mapping, a "research journal," distinctive items of clothing, etc.) for free?

[dmw71]

So if it's not in the B book, it's not available for purchase? Can characters have "flavor" items (e.g., pen & paper for mapping, a "research journal," distinctive items of clothing, etc.) for free?

I have no problem with that. Anything that your character would have realistically had before beginning their adventuring career is fine to carry over.

[Zhym]

Thanks.

Will we have any information about the campaign world that we could use in character creation? Obviously, if there's an existing threat we all know about before adventuring, that would help with character builds, but I'm also thinking about flavor: town names the characters could be from, etc. Or should we just make up our own?