Character Generation

[Marullus]

Cleric 2, Expertise 3, Fighter 1

STR 12/17
DEX 10/14
CON 8/13
INT 5/9
WIS 16/16
WIL 16/21
CHA 10/14
ALT 17/17

Size: 15
MP: 26

You don't have one for DEX. Oh, but actually you can... Use initial 5 to increase DEX 1 to 10, WIS 4 to 15, and then CL 2 raise WIS one more to 16. That could actually make sense. In that case, you still get 2 more augments to INT, CHA, or ALT.

As a good Buddhist, I will max out my ALT at 17/17.

It feels like giving up a lot to get that level of Expertise instead of Cleric... what will Expertise really do?

Reiterating this question. It seems that there's a strong incentive to go Fighter 1/Cleric 3/Expertise 1. But if the Cleric spells are so limited, then Fighter 1/Cleric 2/Expertise 3 would potentially add more capabilities, skills, or options.

Actually both of you need to pick skills to go with your Fighter Level and Expertise Level. The points available let a Bushi take 5 skills at Fighter Level, 5 at Expertise Level (that can ALSO be combat skills) and 5 more at 1st level from each. Gakusho gets 4 combat skills at Fighter Level, 4 at 1st level, 5 skills at Expertise Level (of which 4 can be fighter skills but if FL < EL then it gets tricky) and 5 skills at 1st level. Of course you can play with the skill points to get more skills > 1st level if not all are at FL or EL.

I have no idea what this means, if you can propose options?

marullus needs to decide between Buddhist and Shinto Gakusho and then we can nail down spells memorized.

With nothing but roleplay to recommend one over the other, I would rather roleplay a Buddhist.

I'm also debating whether to run clerics with Spell Points (which limit how many spells can be cast per day) per the original rules, or just run them more like magic users with a more limited spell list (but get some special spells and some spells at a lower level - still some work to be done here). In more standard Cold Iron, clerics wind up with more useful combat spells, so Gakusho are sort of more limited.

From my first look, as I said, I'm pretty underwhelmed. I would much prefer to pick some greater and lesser aspects and expand out the spell list from what you picked. If we're having a small spell list then having to not have to pay spell points makes sense.

Does anyone need anything from me in order to finalize your character? I'm happy to run the numbers (or let the spreadsheet do them).

I'm relying on you to build this and explain it. I'm not going to have time to really crunch all these new rules...

[ffilz]

I’m going to do another pass on the cleric spells. If anyone has any good pointers on what is thematic magic for a fantasy Buddhist (or Shinto) cleric that would be a big help to me in identifying more spells.

I need to read through the RPG bestiaries to see what spirit things can be affected. That may actually be significant.

That said CL 2 EL 3 might be good to give some solid skills. And before I futzed for this campaign CL 2 would have been the highest anyway… CL 2 does get cure light wounds so you have magic healing and I should identify a few. 3rd level spells Gakusho get at 2nd.

[ffilz]

I've done more work on the Cleric spells, looking at Land of the Rising Sun and Sengoku for spell ideas. There ARE some nice spells at 3rd level, but there's plenty at 2nd level and having Expertise Level 3 does give you a decent footing on some non-combat skills.

For both characters, think about what non-combat skills you might want. Just look at the Bushido skills. The Bushi may want some additional combat skills, the basic 5 from Fighter would be:

Dodge, Sword Attack, Sword Parry, Hand to Hand, Bow.

Others you may want:

Unarmed Combat, Spear or Naginata Attack/Parry, Riding, Knife Fighting, Night Fighting (though that should mostly be limited to Ninja...).

Samurai should in theory be using spears as well as swords, but this is a "cool Samurai game"... so Kenjutsu is probably the primary weapon...

You will get a bunch of 1st level skills (5 for each of Fighter and Expertise) though you COULD take a 2nd level skill instead of 3 1st level skills. For combat skills, you can borrow the points from Expertise Level.

Also with Fighter Level 3, the Bushi gets to pick a Special Proficiency (like Iaijutsu, Ni-To-Kenjutsu, Yadomejutsu, and one I haven't named yet that allows fighting when you should be down).

[jemmus]

Japanese Buddhism is more about the afterlife, where Shinto is more about spirits on the Earth. Bushido's shugenja spells are based more on Chinese Taoism. For Buddhist spells, I might go with more ethereal and ghostly stuff, such as exorcism, speak with dead, banish ghost/undead, illusions, mental suggestion, hypnosis, mind control, read thoughts. Also healing. For Shinto, more purifying and balancing spells. Detect evil and good, repel evil, repel pollution (such as undead), maybe some offensive spells specific for use against evil/monstrous creatures. And some D&D druid-like nature spells. I would make Shinto gakusho more powerful against natural things and beastly monsters such as bakemono and tengu. And Buddhist ones more powerful again humans, ghosts, and hags. With both strong against demons and more spiritual monsters.

I'm like Marullus, ATM I don't have much time or mental energy for learning a new rules system from scratch. I could never start learning Bushido from scratch at this point. Frank, if you could give us a summary or short walkthrough of chargen, that would be helpful. Or just pointing us where to look in the rules for guidance would help.

[ffilz]

Japanese Buddhism is more about the afterlife, where Shinto is more about spirits on the Earth. Bushido's shugenja spells are based more on Chinese Taoism. For Buddhist spells, I might go with more ethereal and ghostly stuff, such as exorcism, speak with dead, banish ghost/undead, illusions, mental suggestion, hypnosis, mind control, read thoughts. Also healing. For Shinto, more purifying and balancing spells. Detect evil and good, repel evil, repel pollution (such as undead), maybe some offensive spells specific for use against evil/monstrous creatures. And some D&D druid-like nature spells. I would make Shinto gakusho more powerful against natural things and beastly monsters such as bakemono and tengu. And Buddhist ones more powerful again humans, ghosts, and hags. With both strong against demons and more spiritual monsters.

OK, that's mostly in line with where I was thinking. I'm a bit reticent to remove healing from Shinto priests, but it really is more fitting. The Cold Iron anti-undead spells that Clerics get will work just fine for dealing with ghosts, undead, and other spirits (would they work on Kami?), though exorcism and banishment will be higher level. By illusions and mental stuff, I assume you mean defending against such? If so I've already got that in.

Between Land of the Rising Sun and Sengoku, I did find more spells to round out the priests, I mostly focused on Buddhist but will go back and add more to Shinto. I do need to remove some, like healing from Shinto and purification from Buddhist. If you have some time, if you wouldn't mind running through the lists at least for the first 3 or 4 levels and see if you feel like anything really doesn't belong that would be cool. If not, we'll address things as they come up.

I'm like Marullus, ATM I don't have much time or mental energy for learning a new rules system from scratch. I could never start learning Bushido from scratch at this point. Frank, if you could give us a summary or short walkthrough of chargen, that would be helpful. Or just pointing us where to look in the rules for guidance would help.

For the Bushi, what you're mostly down to is skills:

From Fighter Level I suggest: Dodge 3,Sword Attack 3, Sword Parry 3, Hand to Hand 3

From Expertise Level, I suggest:

Add Spear or Naginata Attack & Parry 3 if you want to add yari or naginata as historical. You could take BOTH sets at level 2 for 2 picks...
Add Unarmed Combat 3 if you want to do fisticuffs (hand to hand is wrestling around on the ground and is nasty if beasties get you into hand to hand)
Use the rest of your 5 level 3 picks for skills that interest you from the Bushido skill list (we'll figure out what they do mechanically in Cold Iron when we need to)
Use the 5 level 1 Expertise picks for Bushido skills that you at least want familiarity with.
Once you've picked your combat skills, I'll suggest what to do with the 5 level 1 combat picks. Basically be familiar with any weapons that make sense that you aren't skilled in already.

And equipment:

Initial gear as Bushido for those classes (and also as per your profession). Everyone gets 4d3 Gold, 4d6 Silver, and 4d6x10 Copper.

Bushi get quality dai sho and the arrows from their inheritance are quality (ignore the Bushido weapon quality table).

Hmm, I may not have the bow and arrow prices right yet... I also haven't thought about the different arrow types.

Once you have your skill picks, I''ll run the numbers (or manage to put together a spread sheet which will run them for us...)

Marrulus's character is easier. Level 1 in a bunch of relevant combat skills... 5 Level 3 Expertise skills and 5 level 1 Expertise skills

Once I run numbers, I'll suggest options for spell memorization.

I am going to go with Spell Point casting for clerics, it matches the style of pray at sunrise to get spell points back. I may fiddle with the low level number though so clerics can cast more since Buddhist and Shinto clerics don't do much fighting compared to was more common with the "pseudo European medieval fantasy" aka "D&D fantasy" of my college Cold Iron play.

I think with help running the numbers, Cold Iron is simpler than Bushido out the door though there is plenty of depth to learn in play, but that's a lot more doable. The combat system is a bit less intricate. There is a LOT on combat in the rules manual because I codified a lot of stuff as I ran the game, but mostly as a player, you just need to be cautious until you get a feel for risk and whack things if you come close, shoot them if they're far away. The cleric will have a few situationally useful combat spells and will do healing after. At 3rd level, the Buddhist Gakusho can start doing some combat buffs (Strength, adding to armor).

[ffilz]

Oh, and check out that Mini Cold Iron I posted. It strips down to a more manageable set of rules, though use the Samurai magic document for the spells if you want to read up on them.

Mostly though I think you'll do fine with "this is what I want to do, how do I do it." And deciding when to cast one of your spells...

[jemmus]

I think Shinto gakusho doing healing is also a good fit. Wounds, disease, and poison are all pollution/impurity that they can cleanse.

Working on my bushi, hope to be done soon.

[ffilz]

I think Shinto gakusho doing healing is also a good fit. Wounds, disease, and poison are all pollution/impurity that they can cleanse.

Working on my bushi, hope to be done soon.

Good point on Shinto using magical healing. I think though that either they should not get the Empathic Healing that's sort of a magical blood transfusion from the caster or other volunteer, or if they do, they would definitely need to purify themselves after. But I can see the basic magical healing is different.

[ffilz]

I'm working on a digital character sheet in Google Sheets. I think I've just finished getting the gnarliest math properly coded and I've started working on automating weapon stuff. It should cover all the benefits of the combat skills listed. I still need to add things like Axe skill. Anyone who wants to use more unusual weapons will need help from me to add them to the template before copying...

Check it out:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

If you want to play with it, make a copy.

I will be adding more weapons. I also need to show the stats for Dodge, Hand to Hand, and Unarmed Combat.

[Marullus]

Cleric 2, Expertise 3, Fighter 1

STR 12/17
DEX 10/14
CON 8/13
INT 5/9
WIS 16/16
WIL 16/21
CHA 10/14
ALT 17/17

Size: 15
MP: 26

That's unchanged.

New rolls...

Birth status [1d100]=88
So, a High Eta, converted to Buddhist Gakusho. I think that works with those stats. I will play him as a gravedigger turned priest (like Eiji was).

Initial gear as Bushido for those classes (and also as per your profession). Everyone gets 4d3 Gold, 4d6 Silver, and 4d6x10 Copper.

[4d3]=12 Gold, [4d6]=15 Silver, and [4d6x10]=11x10=110 Copper

Marrulus's character is easier. Level 1 in a bunch of relevant combat skills... 5 Level 3 Expertise skills and 5 level 1 Expertise skills

Trying to understand skills...

Skills from Fighter 1: Unarmed Combat/Hand to Hand 1, Dodge 1, Spear 1, Bo-jutsu attack 1, Bo-jutsu parry 1
...does that look right?

Skills for Cleric 2: Are there skills for Cleric 2?

Skills from Expertise 3: Unclear if I get separate skills and how skills advance.

In Bushido, Gakusho get more Fine Arts than other classes (like they take levels in Expertise).
Katakana
Hiragana
Sacred Dance
Rhetoric
Butsu-do (Theology)
Yoga:
1 Practical Art: "Grave Digging"/Labor
2 Fine Arts: Physician, Herbalist

Using the " 5 Level 3 Expertise skills and 5 level 1 Expertise skills" Guidance...
Butso-do 3
Meditation 3
Rhetoric 3
Physician 3
Herbalist 3
Ditch-Digging 1
Sacred Dance 1
Chinese Classics 1
Heraldry 1
Lockpicking 1

(I assume the Yoga are replaced by Cleric stuff, not Expert picks)

How does that look? Are all those skills usable or should we change them?

[ffilz]

For this campaign I was going to ignore the rolled status, but High ranking Eta is also fine:

Oh, and let's just do choice of social as:

Middle Samurai
High Ronin
High Merchant
High Artisan

Yes, Yoga are replaced by the Cleric stuff.

As a Cleric, you get 8 Fighter skills at 1st level. Unarmed Combat and Hand to Hand Combat are separate skills, but your fine. I assume Spear Attack and Spear Parry so that's 7. You could add Club Attack, or a thrown weapon skill.

Your Expertise picks look good.

At the moment I'm not doing skills for Cleric Level though down the road I might change my mind, in which case we'll swizzle skills.

[Marullus]

As a Cleric, you get 8 Fighter skills at 1st level. Unarmed Combat and Hand to Hand Combat are separate skills, but your fine. I assume Spear Attack and Spear Parry so that's 7. You could add Club Attack, or a thrown weapon skill.

Okay. Putting more thought into this.

I would like him to be proficient in three potential attack modes (dropping the Spear to go with Buddhist not-shedding-blood Cleric rules).

Bo-jutsu, for use of his Monk's Spade. A practical tool for both grave digging and self defense.

Martial Arts. Because.

Kusari-Jutsu. If this were Bushido, using a weighted chain for trip Attacks would be ideal for this character. Does your system accommodate that?

In a previous post you said about swapping 3-for-1 with those eight slots to get a bump to better skill... is that viable here? Being better at less things seems appropriate for him. I also don't understand the multiple separate skills for a single weapon. But I trust yout o just handle that.

[ffilz]

Let me think about the 3 for 1. Normally you can’t exceed Fighter Level with a combat skill. We’ll there was a special rule that allowed a non-caster to have one skill a level Over but they couldn’t advance any skills until that wasn’t the case anymore. I think it actually won’t break anything to let a 1st level fighter take some 2nd level skills. After that I think I’ll allow anyone to have one combat skill one level over.

I will get Kusari-Jutsu up and running. The system does allow for trip attacks.

I’ve got fighter support close to done in the character sheet. It does ALL the tricky math including all the encumbrance effects.

I have a question about horses and combat. I know lance charges aren’t part of mounted combat in Japan and that bow fire is the biggest thing. Is there much mounted melee action? Would a Japanese war horse attack opponents in melee? I’ve got some rudimentary horse stuff in the character sheet as part of the encumbrance handling. It will be easy to add horse combat skills.

The next big thing is to add a sheet for Buddhist spells. The math for casters is already present.

[ffilz]

Martial Arts. Because.

That will be Unarmed Combat and Hand to Hand Combat in Cold Iron.

Kusari-Jutsu. If this were Bushido, using a weighted chain for trip Attacks would be ideal for this character. Does your system accommodate that?

Oh, which specific weapon were you planning on? I can write up all the chain weapons, but it would be quicker to focus.

I see Bushido does an averaging thing when using a combo-weapon. I think that makes sense.

The division of weapons into two skills comes from the European origin of the game and my modifications. It allows a character to specialize in sword and board or 2-handed sword, or pick up all three skills, so I split Sword into Sword Attack and Sword Parry. Also the original game's Unarmed Combat and Hand to Hand Combat skills both included Dodge, so I split those two skills into three. In the original game you got a single combat skill at Fighter Level, with my changes you essentially get 2.5 of the original skills, but it's better because you eliminate overlap, plus Shield Skill becomes effectively cheaper. I think it still works well in the Japanese realm. And a bonus is that I'm allowing Expertise Level to be used on combat skills, so someone who really wanted to be a focused fighter could be proficient in a slew of weapons...

[Marullus]

Oh, which specific weapon were you planning on? I can write up all the chain weapons, but it would be quicker to focus.

Long rope with a blunt weight (non-slicing, per cleric/buddhist).

So, like this guy.

[ffilz]

Oh, which specific weapon were you planning on? I can write up all the chain weapons, but it would be quicker to focus.

Long rope with a blunt weight (non-slicing, per cleric/buddhist).

So, like this guy.

Do you feel like there should be a difference between a rope or a chain? I suppose rope would be lighter but chain more durable?

I'm not sure how to differentiate between this, Kusari (listed in Land of the Rising Sun) and Manrikugusari. Then there's Kusari-gama that has a sickle, and it seems like a chain can be added to other weapons also.

Anyway, I have some place holder stuff in the character sheet (still need to add it to the Equipment document).

[ffilz]

Well, I think I have a pretty complete character sheet that does lots of nifty calculations for you...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

If you want to play with it, make a copy and please invite ffilzg@gmail.com as an editor.

Optionally, I can fill out a character sheet for you and make you an editor.

[Marullus]

I tried saving a copy (which I do into XLS) and it corrupted/repaired. Here's the output:

Code: Select all

Excel completed file level validation and repair. Some parts of this workbook may have been repaired or discarded.
Removed Records: Formula from /xl/worksheets/sheet1.xml part
Removed Records: Formula from /xl/worksheets/sheet2.xml part
Removed Records: Shared formula from /xl/worksheets/sheet2.xml part

I'd be happy if you could put the stuff we decided so far into a sheet and shared permissions with me from your drive, instead.

[ffilz]

I tried saving a copy (which I do into XLS) and it corrupted/repaired. Here's the output:

Code: Select all

Excel completed file level validation and repair. Some parts of this workbook may have been repaired or discarded.
Removed Records: Formula from /xl/worksheets/sheet1.xml part
Removed Records: Formula from /xl/worksheets/sheet2.xml part
Removed Records: Shared formula from /xl/worksheets/sheet2.xml part

I'd be happy if you could put the stuff we decided so far into a sheet and shared permissions with me from your drive, instead.

Will do. I’m also having a change of heart on XP. The more XP for caster level derived from my early experience with Cold Iron as a player where there was almost no downside to being a caster. I had PCs that didn’t have the stats to be a caster AND lower combat attributes than most of the other PCs. It was a bummer to not get the fun of a caster OR a fighter.

With my changed skill system casters get less combat skill so there is a downside. Combine that with making sure players have a reasonable set of stats and just different attitudes about play I don’t think casters need the ding anymore. Plus play by post will be so slow… And even if I ever get a live game going it will still be way slower than back in college. Third level casters start to get some good spells.

So I’ll be updating the character sheet.

With that a casters levels can be 3,3,1 or 3,2,2.

[Marullus]

Thanks! I appreciate that. I think in that case I would enjoy 3, 3, 1 (Cleric. Expert, fighter) for the Buddhist.