House Rules

[jemmus]

Sniping
The sniping rules are a little unclear and confusing.

The sniping modifier applies only if the
shooter's weapon is resting on a solid support:
a rock or window ledge, for example, or even
across the saddle of a standing horse. This
bonus only applies to the first shot, however.
If that shot sets off a general gunfight, the
sniper loses his sniping benefit on any subsequent
shots.

It seems pretty clear that an essential part is that the weapon be resting on an object. Then, the sniping bonus ends a "general gunfight" starts. What if the target isn't firing back, or can't fire back. Trying to stay with the RAW as much as possible, let's just go ahead and interpret "general gunfight" lierally. Gunfight meaning "people firing guns at each other." If the target is taking other actions, such as running, getting behind cover, or galloping away, the modifiers for those will come into effect. Once the target(s) fires back at any character), the sniping modifier ends. Maybe this is because of the turmoil the sniper isn't able to take such careful, planned shots.

[Thumper]

That all makes sense. I think the term “General Gunfight” indicates anyone taking or potentially taking fire…from any other adversary.

It would also stand to reason that a shooter who has to reposition a weapon should not be permitted to snipe in that same round. Sniping, by definition, is a very carefully aimed shot; so it would make sense that shooting in one general area is all that could be done in a shootout or combat round with that bonus taken.

[jemmus]

Combat Turn (not Shootout Turn) actions
The options are:
-Shoot
-Move
-Shoot and Move
-Any other action, to be sorted out via a GM call.

A Combat Turn is the longer type, at 10 seconds. A character can take one or two Careful shots, then the other side take their one or two shots. Then movement happens. Some clarifications:
-Although shooting happens first, the actions happen simultaneously. Moving characters who lost Initiative must state how fast they're going. The modifiers for shooting or being shot at for walking, running or evading apply throughout the turn.
-There's also an option for delaying one's Shoot or Move action until after the char's spot in the turn has come up. As bluetongue has I think sensibly stated in the Comancheria thread, that's not a practicable option in PBP. Who can imagine if one more people did that held their posts and waited for everyone to post (including NPCs' posts), then decided how to post? I can't imagine that it would be good.

[jemmus]

Dropping unconscious from a horse, wagon, train, saloon roof, etc.
P. 59 (bronco busting) has damage effects from being thrown from a bucking horse. Dropping in an unconscious state from any height will have similar effects. Modifiers based on height from the ground at the time of the fall, velocity, momentum, the rigidity of the ground surface, other factors of the law of physics will apply. GM's discretion (exact calculations will not be exposed).

[jemmus]

Pocket Billiards (Pool, Eight Ball)
Pool tables are prevalent around the towns of the West, and the saloons in the bigger towns usually have at least one. Pool is a gambling sport, of course. Rules:
-Each player makes three rolls on Coordination. The character with the most successes wins the game. In a tie, the character's whose last roll best beat his Coordination score wins. For example, A and B both have Coordination 14. A rolls a 13 on his last roll and B rolls a 9. B wins.

-"Pool sharks" are common. These are very good players he intentionally lose the first few games (and smaller bets) to deceive the other player and hustle him into placing a large bet.
A successful Observation roll can make a character suspicious that pool sharking is going on. But a successful Observation (intelligence, acting) roll by the shark negates the suspicion. Characters with the Gambling skill add their level to Observation rolls. Because of the possibility of sharking, GM's rolls for NPCs won't be posted until after the last game is played.

-Many pool games end up in brawls. Something about the game tends to bring out cocky or belittling behavior in players.

-PCs can choose Pool as a work skill when leveling up. It works like at weapon skill (add 1 to Coordination per level of the skill). If anyone gets the Pool skill, then NPCs (some of them) will start having the Pool skill as well.

[jemmus]

Stealth Movement Rate (Combat Turn)
4 yards (between Crawl (yds) and Walking (6 yds)).

[jemmus]

DT will ask for the Henry Rifle and all its compatible ammo (how many rounds is that? In return he’d offer his Lever Action Carbine and it’s 56 rounds to the sell pile.

He’ll also ask to hang on to one of Colt Single-action revolvers as a backup weapon until they get to Austin or wherever they will attempt the weapons sale.

Boot Hill doesn't break ammo down beyond the categories of Pistol, Rifle, and Shotgun. So a Rifle round can be loaded into a lever-action (Winchester, Henry, Spencer, etc.) or a single shot breech loader (Sharps, buffalo rifle, etc.) I suppose a muzzle-loading rifle as well. The same for Pistol and Shotgun rounds/shells. We could house rule that their are different rounds compatible with different firearms. Game-wise, I think that would make stocking up and restocking in towns more important, and looting in the field less beneficial. You're carrying a lever-action with 23 rounds and recover 48 Rifle rounds, but they're for a long-range Sharps breech loader. What do you do? Try to manage carrying the Sharps and its ammo, and backup for the lever-action? Abandon the lever-action and switch to the Sharps?

What do you guys think? Two options.

a) Go hardcore "survival" mode and specify ammunition that's compatible by firearm type. If we do that, I'd need a volunteer or volunteers to give us information on the most common firearms of 1873. And it would require careful record keeping by the players on ammo types and inventories. (Realistically, there's no way GM could do that and keep the game moving at a reasonable rate). But it could be an interesting real Old West frontier challenge. Things aren't always conveniently available, when and where you want them and need them. (From my little reading, riding 60 or 80 miles or so to take care of some basic thing was common).

b) Stay with the RAW and just carry on with a more standard action-y RPG.

Kind of a choice between Lonesome Dove, Unforgiven and Outlaw Jose Wales vs. John Wayne, etc., the classic TV Westerns, and The Man Who Had No Name. A hard call! There's a middle ground, of course. What do you guys think?

[Thumper]

Option one would definitely be very realistic, and require some forward planning. I would be happy to make a list of the common period ammo/weapon matches.

[ateno]

I fully understand wanting to keep calibers separate, but I dont want to do, or make the gm start counting how many .22 or 45 we have.

We could break it down to light, standard and heavy for each weapon style?

Just late night thinking

[Rex]

I can help Thumper with a list if he wants. Not really that complicated and in truth several pistol rounds were also rifle rounds.

[jemmus]

Unladen horse movement rates
I'm going to say that an unladen horse moves at the next higher category. For example, a horse with 11-15 Strength moves at the 16-20 rate. Unladen means carrying nothing, a saddle, bridle, and empty saddle bags, or up to 35 lbs.

Conversely, a horse carrying a rider plus more than 35 lbs is heavily laden. (Yes, the dread -encumbrance- rules rear their ugly heads). The horse must make a Strength saving throw or its movement while carrying the load goes to the next lower category.

I'm basing this on something I read about Comanches changing horses during raids. The would ride Horse A on the way to the raid, leading Horse B. Before the attack, they would leave Horse B a ways back, held by junior or rookie warriors. After the attack, they would ride rested Horse B and lead unladen Horse A. They could cover up to 100 miles a day doing that.

[jemmus]

Dog owners and dogs
Dog owners, going forward, whenever your dog is with you in the scene, please state what your PC wants the dog to do. Heel (accompany), stay (in that spot), explore (with eyes, ears and nose), etc. Please also make a 1d20 roll to guide GM on relative the success of the command. I'll make an offscreen analog die roll for the dog's success at understanding, overcoming any natural urges, and complying (notwithstanding any plain foolishness or blind misunderstanding of the situation of the command).

-State the owner's desired behavior
-Owner roll and posts1d20
-GM rolls an analog d20 for the canine
-GM posts outcome

[jemmus]

Using more than one skill per strategic movement turn
Normally a character can use only one skill per turn. All of his attention is needed to use that skill effectively. Or could try doing more than one, at -3 to each for two skills, -5 to each for three skills.

[jemmus]

Movement at night (not walking or crawling)

New Moon - 20%
Quarter Moon - 35%
Half Moon - 50%
Gibbous Moon - 65%
Full Moon - 80%

[jemmus]

Wagons' Movement Rate
Wagons move faster than walking men (2 mph) but slower than stagecoaches (4-5 mph). So 3 miles per hour.

[jemmus]

Speaking during Shootout Turns
Shootout turns are of course one second long, divided into six counts. Speaking such as yelling a warning or command will take as long as counts or turns as it naturally takes to say the words. We'll use the "one one thousand, two one thousand..." method for determining how long it takes for the speech. That would mean 4 syllables per one-second turn. So each syllable takes 1.5 counts (round down, because in a shootout turn we're in a hurry and tend to talk fast). So completing a yell of "Watch out!" or "Drop it!" (2 syllables each) would be on count 3.

A character could simultaneously be doing an action, such as drawing a weapon (3 counts, if not Fast Draw) or taking Steady aim (3 counts) or Careful aim (6 counts).

For discussion: Should there be a penalty to the shot for speaking while drawing or aiming? One's attention would be divided, so it seems that efficiency would naturally go down. For reference, shooting while walking is -2 and while running/trotting/galloping is -4.

[Grognardsw]

For discussion: Should there be a penalty to the shot for speaking while drawing or aiming? One's attention would be divided, so it seems that efficiency would naturally go down. For reference, shooting while walking is -2 and while running/trotting/galloping is -4.

Preferring a cinematic approach, I’d say no penalty unless its a villain dramatically monologuing.

Not that I’m one to dwell on rules over story, but if you’re thinking about house rules there are a three more fundamental issues.

First, the Speed after a Fast Draw rule seems counter-intuitive. It makes more random an attribute that should reflect the more skilled gunman.

Say Matt Dillon with a 25 Pistol and Fast Draw goes against a desperate amateur with only a 10 Fast Draw. Dillon rolls a 1 on Fast Draw (the best roll one can get in most circumstances), and amateur barely makes his with a 10. Yet now amateur has a 10 Speed while Dillon a 1. Desperate amateur and Dillon both hip shoot, but Dillon gets bested in speed and shoots second!?

To add insult, Dillon can add 5 to his Speed cause 25 is 5 above 20. A nice plus, but he still loses to amateur’s 10.

It would seem more logical that the Fast Draw skill number be used as Speed, or revert to Coordination. Each option plays to the skill, as opposed to disregarding it in favor of randomized luck that defies skill.

Second, the concept of “getting the drop” on the opponent is a classic trope. The surprise scenario where someone has his gun out and aimed at you , and the other (whether hero or regular guy) always stops and puts their hands up. Like you open a door and there is the bad guy with his gun in your face. Or any other of the many scenes one sees in TV or movies like that.

The implication being the you could never draw your gun out in time when all it takes is the other pulling the trigger. Which is realistic, not just a plot device. The rules are counter-intuitive to that, in that one could fast draw and shoot on equal footing against a gun already drawn (and pointed inches from your head, for an extreme example). I could have a gun barrel pressed against my chest, but still fast draw and shoot on 1, 2, 3 or 6 (depending on type) with a good chance of implausibly beating the gun at my chest. That seems too much to believe that TSR didn’t address, but I couldn’t find a rule on this common (judging by frequency on TV) scenario.

I would say the guy with the gun already pointed at you can shoot first. Maybe get a major Count deduction or something like that.

Third, another common occurrence is the hero (or whoever) gets jumped from behind and knocked out in one blow by whatever, a gun butt, club, etc. This is usually a plot device. But in Brawling rules this could never happen. Brawls are drawn-out affairs taking 6-9 turns to pound someone down to 0 Str. How then to account for this frequent knock-out happening? I don’t know, but maybe a 20 roll in Brawling can be a knock-out if done with a tool/weapon of some sort from behind, with said tool adding a modifier.

[jemmus]

I have to admit, I don't love everything about Boot Hill's combat system. Characters are hard to kill (we haven't had one fatality yet), and it seems that they can take quite a few shots before going down. But I suppose that's balanced by how they become less and less effective at shooting as they take hits.

I can see your point about the Fast Draw rules. The outcome depends heavily on the die rolls. We could make a house rule modification if anyone wants to propose one and everyone agrees on it.

The rules for Surprise apply to getting the drop on someone, I think. There's a -2 modifier to Speed for being surprised. But if the other char takes a Careful shot (the only one allowing full use of their Coordination score), it would happen on count 5 (count 6, minus one for having the weapon already cocked). So it's possible that the surprised char could shoot first and hit, causing a wound and penalty to the other char's chance to hit. And that the man with the already leveled gun could completely miss because of a bad die roll. This is another one where we could discuss and decide on a house rule.
(Related to this is the lack of a rule for executing a helpless character. (A grim topic, but the rules in the other OSR game I GM Bushido address it). This came up in the Paladin game thread. A wounded char was lying facedown in the street with another char standing right over him with a cocked pistol aimed at his back. With a bad die roll and the penalties for night fighting and intoxication, the char completely missed. Not even a light wound scratch. Seems kind of odd and unrealistic to me).

I agree that the fistfights rules aren't especially dramatic or exciting. Brawls are slow, and unlike with gunfights, there are no meaningful tactical options to choose from that I've noticed. No doubt they were designed for lots of quick dice rolling around a live tabletop game. In those games back in the day, we kids considered the dice rolling luck, superstitious skill, and the do-or-die suspense of the results a major source of drama and suspense in a campaign. Like playing craps, with the life of your alter ego character at stake. The excitement might not the same in slower step by step PBP. Another one that we could brew up some house rules on.

Generally I don't like to mess around with Rules as Written, especially when they're in a third edition like these. Things probably came up along hours of gameplay along the way and the player/designers probably decided on the best way to handle them, for next time. I hesitate to fiddle with the RAW much, because unforeseen results can pop up during or after a combat or encounter. If a PC comes out on the losing end, that can lead to some TTRPG game lawyering. But I think that Boot Hill's system is loose enough to handle some tweaks. Of which one I'm about to raise in the OOC thread. Thoughts on the issues raised above are very welcome. It's our game and we've invested plenty into it. The goal is to make it as enjoyable as possible as we go along toward new stories and adventures. And try not to go broke or get killed dead.

[Grognardsw]

…Characters are hard to kill (we haven't had one fatality yet), and it seems that they can take quite a few shots before going down.

I think shoot outs can be very fatal! There is a 15-20% chance on Wound Chart of receiving a killing Mortal Wound (though a Luck roll [average 35%] will save you.) Those are high odds for dying.

The Light and Serious wounds bringing Str. down 1-2 and 3-5 points respectively equate to 3-5 bullets needed to take out a 12 Str. opponent.

If gun fights happened as much as sword fights in D&D, we’d all be on our third characters by now.

[Rex]

I am not to concerned with it. It is clearly not realistic in any way, but that is OK as it is just a game we play for fun. There are better systems for modern weapons for sure but I don't see a point of trying to hack together multiple systems or switching when this one is fine for what we are doing.