OOC Discussion

[Marullus]

Since this has been stretching over weeks, I'll add some things that you should already be aware of...
* You came here because of the magic pool. That's still a thing unexplored. You know it has a sword stuck in the stone underwater and Cu Aislin has insight unshared.
* The bucket is still dangling from the rope, which leads to the surface, but it's 20 feet out from the edge.
* The sun will rise soon, making sunlight a factor at the pool again.
* You're about to trigger the Grind. If you can find a way to get rid of Hungry/Thirsty, you'll just get that back after this turn. (Otherwise, you all get Exhausted on top of being Hungry and Afraid.)
* If Haar can work his way into throwing a proper party (before or after the troll), his Merrymaking nature is appropriate for removing Afraid or Angry from a whole group (simplifying your recovery when you camp).
* It will be a Conflict of some kind to overcome the troll. It could be a Flee conflict for everyone (as you all make a break for it) or just for Haar (if the rest of you flee ahead of him). It could be a Trick to expose him to sunlight in some way after the sun rises, or another Drive Off conflict as you tried before.

Instincts and Spells don't advance the Grind, so you're free to use them now. (Cu Aislin has spells, and Ganna can change the appearance with her wand, which has three charges.)

Creativity is good.

Decide actions and roleplay forward. You may be able to do some things without triggering a test, based on what you decide.

[Stirling]

"You can make three troll illusions!" gasps Clough.

( .... why didn't we think of that before! ).

Much better than shadow puppets or any crazy escape plan I can think of.

ps: don't tell Haar. It will add to the illusion.

[Rex]

Would Ganna know what might frighten a troll that is about human sized? Would that be some sort of lore role and if so would that advance the grind?

[BillTheGalacticHero]

A human-sized fire elemental?

[Marullus]

Technically, Lore would advance the grind. (Cu Aislin and Grim helping your Enchanter roll with Lore Master would work as they give advice on getting the details right... But that doesn't work while you are all Afraid.)

Changing to a totally different creature type for a turn is Ob3 for Ganna to do to herself or Ob4 to do to two companions. Lasting two turns adds +1Ob, lasting the phase (until camp) is +2 Ob.

The new form must be humanoid and cannot make the subject taller or shorter by more than two feet. Weight, clothing and carried items may be altered.

Ganna can cast three times, but then needs to camp to recharge her wand.

[Stirling]

Trolls might be more believable than a fire elemental bearing in mind you will not cast any heat or actually burn anything.

[Marullus]

*bump*
Keep brainstorming.

[BillTheGalacticHero]

Could Ganna ride on one of our shoulders and then cast an illusion over both so they appear as one larger cresture, say a bigger troll? Then the others could be smaller trolls or orcs?

[Marullus]

Could Ganna ride on one of our shoulders and then cast an illusion over both so they appear as one larger cresture,

No.

[Stirling]

With a two foot higher growth we will still appear to be 7-8 feet tall.

Waiting for spell effect before deciding next actions. If we props troll illusions then Clough would act 'trollish'.

[Rex]

We can try to be 3 trolls, but none of us speak troll so I am not sure how we are going to bluff him into letting us go.

[Enoch]

Do we have anyone with Manipulator? I have Lore Master. With a Trick conflict, we can probably get the troll into the light.

By the way, just a reminder of how The Grind works: EACH ACTION one of the characters takes advances the Grind, which will give us conditions. This isn't like D&D, where each character decides what they want to do each round. If you post "oh, I'll do this", and another character says "and I'll do that", that's 2 actions, and we're halfway to our next Condition. We need to work as a team and be deliberate.

[BillTheGalacticHero]

How about something like this? Ganna disguises us as trolls, and then we draw the real troll outside by convincing him there's a lot of tasty food outside. The troll apparently speaks Common so we use that, with a guttural accent if possible.

[shroomofinsanity]

I have manipulator 2. We may be beating around a bush here companions. I feel we are in a corner, I have distracted the troll, which should give some advantage to the party in a bid for escape. I am not super confident but maybe I can manipulate my way out of danger. The rest of you should be able to escape for now and come up with a plan once you have gotten to safety.

Mr Evil GM: based on how the situation is set up in the cave right now, with the troll focused like he is, do the other characters have a straight shot out of the trolls lair without passing by the troll again?

If he is focused, id say the group tries to sneak away, if there is a chance the characters cross his line of sight, then they can make a signal for Haar, and I can try and distract him further with a masterful cooking check. How does that sound?

[Enoch]

That sounds like a Flee conflict. I think we'd have better luck and accomplish more with a Trick conflict. Once again: unless we are somehow undetected right now (in which case maybe Marullus would let someone make a Scout roll for the group to sneak away), we're in a Conflict.

The first step is to decide what Conflict type we want (see initial posts about Conflicts). Once we've decided that, there are specific rules on how to run a Conflict.

[Marullus]

Thanks, Enoch.

This seems to be paralyzed with confusion (rather than world events) which is something we can address. I'll take a moment to unravel and help because I know that Torchbearer is a bit different. It doesn't just use a turn-by-turn narrative flow like D&D and some other games. It has specific group mechanics you use in some situations and this one of them.

I am going to ask that you scroll up and re-read this post. Then, go to your Torchbearer rulebook and read the chapter on Conflicts (p. 67-75). As stated before, resolving the troll is a big thing, and will require some kind of structured conflict to resolve. (There's explanations of Conflict through this thread for your first attempt by the troll, which should also help.)

You're taking some individual actions which accomplish narrative positioning. That's good, and sets you up for the conflict you want. But you will need to engage in an actual conflict to resolve this scene. You slipped lose of your ropes and freed your friends and you had Tabbi try to get a knife. You talked the troll into listening about cooking you and lighting a fire which removed darkness penalties and has succeeded in distracting the troll's attention. These are all great changes to narrative positioning and put you in a place to do what you want.

But you still need to decide what you want, and what conflict gets it for you. Do you want to escape or do you want to overcome the troll? If you want to escape, you all could do so freely (due to the distraction as narrative positioning) except Haar. Haar would then need to engage in a Flee conflict alone to escape (or be eaten). Alternatively, you could go into Flee conflict together, having the group try to help in Haar's escape at the cost of jeapordizing their own chance of doing so. If you want to overcome the troll, you can Drive Off by force again or you can Trick with some plan that makes sense (drug it to sleep with food, expose it to sunlight at dawn, fool it in some way with your clever disguise, etc.).

You also could try additional actions to change narrative positioning before the conflict. Ganna can cast a spell to turn one or more of you into trolls (which is described as physical alteration and not illusion, but doesn't change your abilities). You have one turn (one action) to enact a plan (i.e. engage in a Conflict) before the spell ends. Once you are trolls, how does that narrative positioning impact your planned conflict? I also pointed out the halfling's merrymaking nature. It would cost a turn and trigger the grind, but Haar can try to turn the cooking into a full-blown party with the other PCs involved and thus alleviate their Afraid conditions (a good change to your positioning). Sweeping the troll up in it and making it successful is a bold and difficult move. There are other factors you can attempt. Re-read the post above.

The one thing you can't do is narratively position yourself out of the situation. It is preparing for a Conflict and a Conflict is needed to resolve this troll scene.

I hope that helps.

Since you've been working on the spell idea, I'll lay that out explicitly, too.

• Ganna currently has 2D Enchanter skill. She can add a +1D from Moon Child or another trait to a roll to make it 3D. The obstacle is 3 successes to change herself to a troll. If she wants to cast a second time, the obstacle is 4 successes and it changes up to two companions instead. She can use her Fate and Persona to modify that roll as normal.
• That means you spend a trait and roll three dice and at a minimum need three successes. You can spend a Persona to add +1D or to add your Nature dice but risk taxing (losing) them. You can spend a Persona to reroll all failed dice once if it relates to your wise. You can spend a Fate to reroll 6s or to reroll a die related to her wise.
• Right now, everyone is afraid, which means nobody can help on rolls. If you take an action (like the merrymaking) to alleve those conditions, then Cu Aislin and Grimm will be allowed to help with Lore Master to make sure you get the troll details right on the transformations, which is +2D.
• Changing to something other than a troll is easier. "Similar stock and appearance" on herself (i.e. a slight human female but fully armed and armored, dressing Cinderella for the ball, an old crone to a beautiful queen) would be Ob 1. "dissimilar weight and appearance" on herself (i.e. impersonating a bulky male human guard patrolling above) would be Ob2. Changing race/creature type (i.e. a human to a troll, a wolf into Grandma) is what makes it so hard.
• I am focusing on scope here, with the base duration of one action or turn. If making it last is important to your plan it is +1 Ob to last a second turn or +2 Ob to make it last the whole phase (until camp).
• Your wand has three charges and you can cast the spell up to three times accordingly. You can only spend a trait once per session, so you'd need to justify different traits on different rolls.
• I also wrote a full clarification on witches two weeks ago, here.

Ask if that doesn't make sense.

[Rex]

I read through everything a couple of times. I am going to try and armor us up and give us weapons and try and bluff the troll that we to tough and to free the halfling. The die roller hates me and I need all the dice I can get to pull off anything. I am out of time right now as I have to head for work so expect a post late tonight when I get home.

[Marullus]

Okay!

I'm interpreting that as:

• Successfully transforming the appearance of group members establishes the narrative positioning for a Trick Conflict. Your goal will be to intimidate the troll with your visible prowess so that it withdraws. (You can define what your success condition is - my assumption is that "the troll leaves the pool room" which lets it still be a hazard in the maze-like caves, and it is free to return in the future. Getting it to flee the caverns entirely would be more of a Drive Off, so I will want a win-condition that doesn't include that.)
• You need to pick who is leading the ruse. They will roll their Manipulator skill and add it to their Willpower to set the group's disposition (hit points) for the conflict. As long as at least one member of your Conflict team is still Hungry/Thirsty, we subtract 1 success from your Disposition roll.
• Those who participate in the fight will describe how they're participating in the ruse. Manipulator skill is used for Attack or Feint actions. Lore Master skill is used for Defend or Maneuver actions.
• You aren't holding any actual weapons, you'll just have illusiory ones. If you do something that would reveal that the weapons aren't in fact real, you will have a -1D penalty to your roll.
• Each PC will need to state if they're part of the ruse. They will give +1D to the Disposition roll and will take actions in the ruse. They're bound to the results of the conflict, win or lose. Those not in the conflict will remain hidden - they'll still be impacted by the Grind ticking forward but not by the consequence of the Conflict. Grimm will help (as an NPC) if you wish him to.
• You're still all Afraid which means you can't help other's rolls or use beginner's luck. This means you're rolling just your own dice and that you can only be productive in the fight if you have Manipulator or Lore Master already on your sheet. Manipulator: Clough (3D), Haar (2D). Loremaster: Cu Aislin (4D), Grimm (2D), Ganna (2D). Nobody has both skills. Tancred has no related skills.

Does everyone agree with Ganna's plan to make you look like still armed and armored adventurers?

Any other discussion or roleplay before Rex posts tonight?

[Enoch]

I vote for Clough as leader. Cu is well-positioned to use Defend and Manuever.

If we're decided on a Trick conflict, I suggest we make our goal to get him to enter the sunlight, since Cu remembered that trolls turn to stone in sunlight.

[shroomofinsanity]

Remember everyone, we also have our conditions to keep in mind here. All of us fraidy cats can't help, so our rolls in this conflict are going to be very difficult. and the hungry ones will end up with less disposition. It won't be impossible, but we have our work cut out for us. Just let me know the best way Haar can help and he will do his frightened little best!