OOC: Rules Discussions

[Q.Q Elf]

I'd love to be able to run or play Burning Empires, but I don't think I have the bandwidth to run more than 1 game at a time... especially with Burning Empires. Color and Interstitial scenes still require processing even if I'm not pushing in them as a GM.

[Simon]

Yeah I've been toying with the idea of a BE pbp, but like you say, its an intense game and I think would require a little more of me than I have to give at the moment. I'm barely able to keep things straight with the two TB campaigns.

That being said, I feel that the degree to which the game is organized in to "movements," and the strict scene-budgeting for players makes it very well suited to the pbp format. Although firefights would be a total fucking nightmare. So who knows.

[Simon]

Also, was there ever a campaign ID issued so we can link a character in the dice roller?

[Q.Q Elf]

I'll get the dice roller thing set up tonight.

[Q.Q Elf]

The dice roller registration didn't feel like sending me an activation email. I will try it again in the morning.

[GreyWolfVT]

the last I knew folks were not getting the emails and were having to PM ToniXX.

[Q.Q Elf]

Ok. I could email Tonixx about it...

Hmm, after sandbox testing it, I don't know if I like this particular dice roller for what we need. I see it does dice pools, but does it do the "exploding" dice thing?

One of the things that you can do with a Fate point (earned in play for Acting on a Belief, Working Towards a Goal, or Benefiting from an Instinct) is that you can reroll 6s after you've made a dice roll, and then count the successes on the re-rolled dice in addition to the 6s that you already rolled.

So you'd need to know the individual dice results in addition to the number of successes in order to make that choice.

If the Unseen Servant dice roller doesn't do all the bits that we need, I've found a World of Darkness-style dice roller that would work for us here:
http://www.rdinn.com/wod_dice_roller.php

Maybe Keehnelf can say how the dice are in his game...

[GreyWolfVT]

well I know we can crate macros to do several d6 rolls if that is close to what you would need.

Example: [1d6] = 3 [1d6] = 1 [1d6] = 4 [1d6] = 5

[Q.Q Elf]

It is important to go over some of the rules of Torchbearer.

One is the Artha cycle. This is how you "get XP" and gain a level.

In Torchbearer you get "XP" for:

Low level rewards: (Fate Points)

• Using your Belief to move the game "forward" (i.e. in a new or interesting direction) (GM Voice: Once per Session)
• Working toward (but not accomplishing) your stated Goal. (GM Voice: Once per Session)
• Gaining an in-game benefit from an Instinct. (GM Voice: Once per Session)

High level rewards: (Persona Points)

• Playing out a conflict between your Belief and the actions you take and showing how it changes your character. (GM Voice: Once per Session, cannot be earned in combination with the "Acting on your Belief" trigger above under Fate rewards. It's not laid out as a once-per-session event, but the demands of earning this (it can't be lame bullshit) kind of make it a one-per-session ambition for most people)
• Accomplishing your stated Goal. (GM Voice: Once per Session)
• Being voted MVP for being essential to the party's success in the session. (GM Voice: Once per Session)
• Teamwork and hard work on behalf of the group. (one player per Session)
• Embodiment: lively and entertaining role-playing of your character. (GM Voice: Once per Session)

PHAT LEWTZ part 1 - What to do with Fate & Persona

So, what do you do with Fate & Persona?

Fate:

• Luck - AFTER making a dice roll (remembering that this is based on dice pools), you can pick up a new die for any 6 you rolled. Roll the new die or dice, and add those successes to your result.
• Deeper Understanding - AFTER a dice roll, you can say, "AH HAH!" And then you can reroll any single failed die. (You cannot reroll a failed reroll, but you can reroll newly rolled dice from Luck).

Persona:

• Advantage - PRIOR to a dice roll, you may spend up to THREE Persona points. Each Persona point adds +1 die to your dice pool for that roll.
• Tapping Nature - See that number next to NATURE on your character sheet? (For GreyWolfVT, that number is 5, which is pretty darn huge.) By spending Persona BEFORE a dice roll, you can ADD your entire current pool of Nature to your dice pool for that roll.
• Wisdom - AFTER a dice roll, you can say, "OF COURSE!" if the dice test can be related to a Wise. Then you can reroll ALL failed dice. (And if you intend to use Luck (Fate points), you should use the Wisdom benefit FIRST to maximize your 6s.)

PHAT LEWTZ part 2 - Why spend Fate & Persona?

Why else are you earning this stuff & spending it?

You must SPEND 3 Fate and 3 Persona to reach level 2.

You must SPEND 7 Fate and 6 Persona to reach level 3.

To put it in perspective, you can earn 3 Fate and 4 Persona (MAX) per Session.

To reach level 2 in ONE game Session, you must get the maximum Fate reward, AND maximize Persona by being the best roleplayer & teammate out of everyone at the table. That's pretty improbable.

Hitting level 3 in a minimum of 3 game Sessions? This is pretty much impossible unless you are playing with brainless zombies in your group.

[GreyWolfVT]

But I like brainless zombies...... when I get to kill em.

[Q.Q Elf]

For those with the book, Fate oddities...

I don't have my Burning Wheel or Mouse Guard with me, but in Burning Empires, you gain Fate for turning your Instincts against you and making the situation HARDER (and cooler).

On the flip side in Burning Empires, the benefit of using an Instinct to help you is that the Instinct helps you! That's it! What else do you need except to get a mechanical benefit in the game by using your Instinct?

In Torchbearer, you only get a Fate point if you benefit from using your Instinct. (lame!)
If you play AGAINST your Instinct, you're just screwed.

I guess that's why Thor's recommended Instincts are so lame...

Always keep the torch lit.
Always map our progress when we make camp.
Always locate fresh, sweet water before making camp.
Always keep an eye out for secret doors.
Always keep my eyes open for traps.
Always haggle when in town.
Always scribe a scroll when we make camp.
Always tend my friends' wounds in camp.

[Keehnelf]

The folks in my game generally do "Description (sometimes) {1d6}, {1d6} etc." as needed.

Unfortunately, it's true, the dice roller really does not allow for the possibility of exploding 6s. The {5d6s4} format only outputs the number of successes you got, and doesn't tell you the numbers on any of the dice.

[Q.Q Elf]

sulldawga, you may want to recast Marodin's Instinct unless I house-rule Fate rewards.

Earning Fate off an Instinct requires a Roll (as I read the rules), and "Always be at the front" may not trigger a ton of dice tests.

[Keehnelf]

I don't think you need a roll to earn fate off an instinct, but it needs to have an obvious and direct benefit to the party. Usually that will come as the result of a roll, but it's conceivable that it could benefit the party by shifting a roll from someone else who would have died or earned a condition over to his character who might successfully navigate whatever it is.

Like, a trap that drops a log on a rope swinging down through the hallway--initially I was in front but his instinct kicks in to let him be in front and take the brunt of the hit. His higher Health allows him to suck up the potential Injury (or death if I happen to be injured already) with successes that I would not have otherwise been able to muster. I would call that a benefit to the party.

However, I do agree that regardless of dice rolls it's not all that likely to often be a clear-cut case of it benefiting the party.

[GreyWolfVT]

Once you get the dice situation figured out let me know as I am fine no matter what we use for rolling seeing as we have a nice universal place for the sheets elsewhere there is nothing that is making me need to use the USS roller for this if it does not work for the types of rolling situations we will encounter in this system.

[Q.Q Elf]

Ok, I guess my preferred thing is to use the dice roller here:
http://www.rdinn.com/wod_dice_roller.php

And just copy/paste the results.
(If you email them to me from that roller, I probably won't check them anyway.)

Just note that it's d6-based, and success is 4 or above.

Even if there was a log (like the Unseen Servant roller), 99% of the time I don't care about the log (and if you're the 1%er, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE!)... so it kind of defeats the purpose of the dice roller on this site.

While a log is useful, especially for systems that are strict Pass/Fail, a lot of tests in Torchbearer involve Compromise... so even if you win, you get screwed in other ways. A lot of the drama should be by your choice, and not the dice themselves.

So, screw the log. F*CK THE KING, to quote the Hound.
Just make sure to paste results in.

[GreyWolfVT]

will do mr DM

[sulldawga]

It does look pretty clear-cut from a strict reading of the rules that you only earn a Reward from acting on Instinct if the act results in a roll that benefits the party.

And I agree that it will be hard to actively use that Instinct in a way that will benefit the party (although I like Keehnelf's example).

How about this one: "When meeting others for the first time (humans or non-humans), always try to talk to them first"

I think it ties in nicely with Marodin's Orator powers and desire to uphold the Law and convert the unbeliever over randomly killing things.

Everyone gets one shot at redemption before the sword comes out.

[Keehnelf]

Oh interesting, somehow I was completely omitting the roll part of that language every time I read that section! Hah.

[Q.Q Elf]

sulldawga, I think that one works... it'll be cool to see it in action, and is a nice contrast from the automatic "Kill them and take their stuff" from the good ol' murder hobo days.

RAW, the rules for earning Fate are not what I thought they'd be from Burning Wheel. I'm just so used to going against Instinct to earn these points...

Traits are the new Instincts, I guess.
And that leads to another item...

CHECKS! Or, How do I camp so I don't die of starvation and exhaustion and fear?

One more thing for GreyWolfVT. In order to set up Camp, someone needs to have earned a Check.

You do this by using a Trait against yourself. Normally, Traits help your rolls... but you can also use them to make it harder on you.

Traits...

• Benefit: If you can describe how a character Trait can help a dice test, then you get bonus dice equal to the rating of that Trait.
• Penalty (Earns a Check): If you can describe how your Trait hinders what your character is doing, you get a 1 dice penalty to your dice roll in exchange for a Check.
• Penalty (Earns a Check): If you can describe how an opponent uses your Trait against you, they can get a 2 dice bonus to their roll in an action against you. It earns 2 Checks.
• Penalty (Earns a Check): If a versus test results in a tie (Same number of successes), and you break the tie in your opponent's favor, you earn 2 Checks.

For Instance...
Magnus the Red is a Warrior from the North. And he's Tall. If your character has a Trait, it means they are the living embodiment of what it means to be described that way. So if Magnus the Red is Tall, he's bumping his head on everything... doorways, hanging signs, treebranches.

Magnus' player can take a -1 dice penalty to his Pathfinding skill if Magnus is trying to find a way through a briar patch... and earn a Check in the process (for making life difficult for Magnus).

What do you do with Checks?

In Camp, you typically use dice checks to recover from problems, scavenge or hunt for food, and the like. If you don't have a Check, you have to use what you've got... and if you are out of stuff, then you get progressively more screwed by the Grind.