Character Generation Discussion

[ffilz]

I went for the high STR with Kentaro as the obvious build. I think there are too many trade offs. Consider if you could live with Lightly Encumbered and Stat for it? Speed is a huge factor. Dex saves kill fighters. You don't see anything with out Wits (and Wits determines how many skills you can improve, which we haven't explored yet.)

I think there are more interesting stories to tell... what evolved into Souta is a good example!

I'm pretty sure I'm going to wind up with the 25 STR. With my current armor and weapons, there is no problems. He could even upgrade to complete light samurai armor (AC 6) and still carry all his weapons. Over time, it's clear the game expects you to increase attributes. I will futz numbers to try and at least get a 10 WT, but I dunno, I'm not sure a 15 HLH is enough...

[jemmus]

Toshizo's Wit is 5. He's below the Classic Man's 10 Wit. I should try to RP that better.

[Marullus]

Without a Karma addition, there's not enough attribute points to make it worth broadening the approach to a Shugenja.

I am considering a Shugenja (who they can meet on the mountain) who is trained by Fūjin (tying back to the shrine) and adds the Pious Layman rules as a Shinto.

Jemmus - does that help with a tie to the story?

Ffilz - does that step on your Shinto toes? I would hope to tie together for a Shinto pair. I am happy following your lead as the priest.

[Marullus]

...capturing rolls.

Birth Table [1d100]=14
Medium Samurai

Age [1d6+15]=1+15=16

Gold [4d3]=10 silver [4d6]=14 copper [4d6x10]=11x10=110
10gp
14sp
110cp

Sword [1d20-1]=8-1=7 armor [2d3]=5 warhorse (30) [1d100]=80
Average katana and wakizashi
Partial Heavy Samurai Armor (25lbs, 13gp)
No warhorse (500sp, or 200sp for riding)

Hit points [1d3]=3

Power points [1d10]=6

[ffilz]

Without a Karma addition, there's not enough attribute points to make it worth broadening the approach to a Shugenja.

I am considering a Shugenja (who they can meet on the mountain) who is trained by Fūjin (tying back to the shrine) and adds the Pious Layman rules as a Shinto.

Jemmus - does that help with a tie to the story?

Ffilz - does that step on your Shinto toes? I would hope to tie together for a Shinto pair. I am happy following your lead as the priest.

Sounds good to me.

[ffilz]

Oh, and which is the best Bushi character sheet to copy?

[Marullus]

Oh, and which is the best Bushi character sheet to copy?

Souta's.

[Marullus]

I am considering a Shugenja (who they can meet on the mountain) who is trained by Fūjin (tying back to the shrine) and adds the Pious Layman rules as a Shinto.

Jemmus - does that help with a tie to the story?

Pulling this forward so it doesn't get lost. There's results not revealed from Fūjin - is it okay for me to tie in and be sent from him? Use him as magical patron for my Shugenja knowledge?

[ffilz]

OK, more work done on Kimura Hiroshi

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ue&sd=true

Still trying to decide Fine Art skill and pick from the short list. Armorer and Bowyer in some ways are obvious but I'm not sure what we determined the utility would be. Physician and Hawking would be neat but Hawking for a Low Ronin? (something he was into before his family fell from grace?).

Also currently written up with a 3-man Dai-Kyu but I guess he'd be better off with a 2-man Han-Kyu since he can fire that in 2nd action.

[Marullus]

Hawking is also for the knowledgeable guide, the woodsman who leads the nobles in the hunt. Perhaps it is his route to ascendance, hoping to rise, instead of being g fallen from grace.

[Marullus]

Adding:
Falconry allows bonus leading hunts of nobles and also training the hawks for them (see above on the aspiring Bushi) It references that a trained falcon to participate in combat when released at a target.

Interesting, there's no additional information in Book I or Book II on hawk or falcon that I can find, nor in a Google search for Bushido errata. We will need to decide on Hawk stats.

Book II does define warhorse stats, which will be relevant in the near future. They act as a Combatant on their own turn. I assume we do the same thing for the falcon.

(I was considering Falconry for roleplay with a 'mountain witch' Shugenja but like Ffilz bushi having it better. If you end up not taking it, I might consider it.)

[jemmus]

I am considering a Shugenja (who they can meet on the mountain) who is trained by Fūjin (tying back to the shrine) and adds the Pious Layman rules as a Shinto.

Jemmus - does that help with a tie to the story?

Pulling this forward so it doesn't get lost. There's results not revealed from Fūjin - is it okay for me to tie in and be sent from him? Use him as magical patron for my Shugenja knowledge?

Yes, that works. But rather than Fuujin himself training the shugenja, maybe it would be a shungendo school devoted to Fuujin that trained him. Fuujin is wild and unpredictable, and he can be dangerous. He/it is not at all human-like in his thinking or behavior. But he's intelligent.

Since the PC's are near Mt. Fuji, another option is its goddess Kono-hana-sakuya-hime ("Cherry tree blossoms blooming princess"). She's also the goddess of all volcanoes in Japan.
She's gentler and more human-like than Fuujin. She once healed a village of smallpox, in the guise of a young woman in white. But she also caused a mountain to blow itself apart, because it was taller than Mt. Fuji.

[jemmus]

OK, more work done on Kimura Hiroshi

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ue&sd=true

Still trying to decide Fine Art skill and pick from the short list. Armorer and Bowyer in some ways are obvious but I'm not sure what we determined the utility would be. Physician and Hawking would be neat but Hawking for a Low Ronin? (something he was into before his family fell from grace?).

Also currently written up with a 3-man Dai-Kyu but I guess he'd be better off with a 2-man Han-Kyu since he can fire that in 2nd action.

I thought Toshizo would be able to shoot two arrows per turn with a han-kyu. But shoot han-kyu is a primary action, and its not listed as one of the second actions on p. 62.

[ffilz]

OK, more work done on Kimura Hiroshi

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ue&sd=true

Still trying to decide Fine Art skill and pick from the short list. Armorer and Bowyer in some ways are obvious but I'm not sure what we determined the utility would be. Physician and Hawking would be neat but Hawking for a Low Ronin? (something he was into before his family fell from grace?).

Also currently written up with a 3-man Dai-Kyu but I guess he'd be better off with a 2-man Han-Kyu since he can fire that in 2nd action.

I thought Toshizo would be able to shoot two arrows per turn with a han-kyu. But shoot han-kyu is a primary action, and its not listed as one of the second actions on p. 62.

Oh I need to read more carefully. I saw shooting dai-kyu and Han-kyu in separate lists.

[ffilz]

Need to respond about hawking but need to find time at my computer not my phone…

[Marullus]

Yes, that works. But rather than Fuujin himself training the shugenja, maybe it would be a shungendo school devoted to Fuujin that trained him. Fuujin is wild and unpredictable, and he can be dangerous. He/it is not at all human-like in his thinking or behavior. But he's intelligent.

Since the PC's are near Mt. Fuji, another option is its goddess Kono-hana-sakuya-hime ("Cherry tree blossoms blooming princess"). She's also the goddess of all volcanoes in Japan.
She's gentler and more human-like than Fuujin. She once healed a village of smallpox, in the guise of a young woman in white. But she also caused a mountain to blow itself apart, because it was taller than Mt. Fuji.

I admit, I really struggle with the idea of "shugendo schools" in a setting that describes Shugenja as solitary hermits, distrusted and ostracized with only half-On. It is incongruous and I don't know how to square it. Thoughts?

As for Fuujin:
The idea of a wild and mercurial spirit being his Patron (and inspiration) was the concept I was leaning into. I'm not interested in the "cherry blossom princess" avenue. I was developing either a solitary "mountain witch" angle, or a "pious layman of Fuujin" angle, either of which play into the concept of Shugenja being weird, solitary, and linked to greater powers. In the Valley of Mist module, it is the O-Bake who really have common Shugenja practice and that's where I liked the idea of appealing to them/Kami to learn the secrets of nature. The Pious Layman rules provide specific advantage in negotiating with Kami-Gods, and I am interested in playing someone who appeals to Fuujin specifically.

Looking for your bounds, then I'll post a proposed character. I was tweaking and experimenting today. Perhaps a sickly and frail boy from a good family sent to the Fuujin Shrine to heal, die, or make something of himself who comes to personal interest/patronage and learns the first secrets of his Arts and now perhaps given a task. Or a daughter who learned from the o-bake of the mountains, the spirits of nature themselves (including or not including Fuujin on a mountaintop) revealing secrets to her, who now emerges as Fate brings others to her path?

[jemmus]

You're right, I'd forgotten that shugenja are supposed to be hermits and on the fringes of society. So no shugendo schools. I'm not sure how the School of Fire, School of Wood, etc. work into that. Maybe rather than actual disciplines, they're just techniques that draw from that specific Element.

Bushido partly bases shugenja on the yamabushi ("mountain dweller") mountain ascetics. They're Shinto shamans, and famous for meditating under waterfalls. They commune with spirits and kami and are healers. Then it seems to combine them with practitioners of a Taoist magic system developed by En-no-Gyoya. I've never heard of Taoist magic even mentioned in Japan, so it might have been pretty obscure. Which fits into the idea that shugenja are rare practitioners of a very esoteric art.

Either one of your character concepts sound really fun. If the PC learned from o-bake, they would probably be tengu. They tend to peacefully interact with humans more than other o-bake. The rules say that some are skilled in the Schools of Wood or Soil.

I could see that a child who grew up in the Fuujin shrine on Neno-san and is devoted to him could develop into a shugenja. The rules mention "study of mysterious doctrines over the years." Perhaps the PC has/had a mentor-teacher who was also a Fuujin devotee, and fairly frequent visitor to the shrine?

If I remember correctly, your PC is middle rank samurai. The first sons of samurai always inherit all of the family's land and the family leadership. (They didn't want to divide the land between all of the children, because that would result in dividing the wealth and power into smaller and smaller portions each generation). To avoid any conflicts between siblings, the youngest sons of samurai families were often sent to temples to become priests. I just mention it as another possible reason to end up at the shrine.

[Marullus]

The disparity is on the Bushido side... it isn't just us that is confused. I appreciate you elaborating on the yamabushi template for context. Bushido definitely mushes together the Japanese yamabushi with the Chinese Taoist En-no-Gyoya, then slaps on a "normal gaming" aspect by stating "Likewise, magical practitioners of similar aims would pool their knowledge and resources in a School," which becomes important for gaining new knowledge in downtime as an explicit organization in 1062.2 GROUP STATUS. (I realized that with Taka and gave her an IC group, which then changed into a mentor for Ffilz since the Valley of Mist has a cool built-in NPC mentor we could utilize.) Since rank in a group is purely at GM-discretion, how you lay that out is important to defining the concept. If you allow a "chosen one" belief, he could be important to the group. Or. At the other end of the spectrum, barely a member.

For my new character in your game, which way we describe it changes the personality and the skill choices. That's why I'm seeking the clarification.

I named him Takeda no Haruto per your guidance above (he's a younger son of the Kai Takedas, and so can link to the current story, and Haruto for 'flying one' as I was tying him to Fuujin and the local shrine plotline). He's going to be a sickly young man (unsuitable to be Bushi) who has sought power through alternative means and now will pursue (his goals, his patrons goals) during this time of conflict. Through knowledge of the School of Soil, he has the ability to heal himself magically where he cannot recover from even the slightest cold sniffle naturally and he also has the ability to fight with the power of the wind (the poorly-named Soil Darts spell).

• If he went to a "shugenja school" then he has a more Chinese Taoist En-no-Gyoya view. He gets Chinese Classics and Divination as skills and a flair for Fate-reading, and studies the schools of Metal in addition to soil.
• If he's a yamabushi style, he/she can have lived on the mountain, learned from Kami about the true power inherent in nature itself. He/she learns Herbalism and Falconry to supplement a more naturalist/animist upbringing and the School of Wood to develop in the power of life essence. (This is potentially skipped to let Ffilz new Bushi be the one roleplaying with a pet falcon.)
• If s/he's a Shinto from the Fujiin Shrine, he can have come to the personal attention of the more poweful Kami as a Patron. He/she learns Shinten Theology and Herbalism, and also uses the Pious Layman rules. This could end up with either Metal or Wood as secondary school to Soil.

The Pious Layman rules feel more Paladin-esque and they add more flavor than benefit. I like them for the idea of the third (Fujiin Patron) option - by being another class sworn to a faith, a Pious Layman gains a major bonus to Reaction Rolls with Gods that doesn't appear in common with normal Gakusho.

Code: Select all

1093.3 PIETY
The vows kept by Gakusho may be adopted by lay persons, nonpriests,
who wish to dedicate themselves as Pious Buddhists or
Shintoists. Being Pious in one religion implies that the character
attaches more importance to that faith than the other. Piety confers
the following advantages and obligations on the character:
* Characters may call upon his Gods once per day in each of the
following situations:
—To seek to exorcise evil spirits, as a Gakusho does.
—To heal damage as a Gakusho does.
—To receive damage bonus to blows in a fight with evil creatures.
—To resist evil magic (bonus to all Saving Throws and Magic
Defense).
In each case, an average BCS is calculated based on the Will ST
and the BCS in Theology for the character's religion. If there is no
score in the Theology Skill, the average BCS may still be calculated.
The Effect Number of the BCS roll determines the amount of bonus
received from the Gods, or the "Magic BCS" for the characters to use
the power, as appropriate. Failed rolls have no effect.
* Characters add 5 times their Level to Reaction Rolls and effective
Status in dealing with the Gods.
* On for religious actions concerning the character's faith should be
increased. Pilgrimages should receive more On than usual, as
should On for overcoming enemies of the religion. Similarly, On lost
for actions regarded as sinful or dishonorable by their religion will
cost characters more On than usual.
* Pious Buddhist laymen may call upon the Buddha Amida at their
deaths. If successful (check with Will ST) they will add 1D6 to their
Karma. Pious Shintoists may do the same calling upon Amaterasu.
Pious laymen will be liable to incurring Sin or Pollution just as
Gakusho are. Each such Sin/Pollution will reduce their effective
Level by 1 in using the benefits of Piety. If the effective Level in this
regard is reduced to 0, they lose all such benefits.

The way I'm hoping to interpret the above, when applying the Pious Layman description on top of the Shugenja Description:
The bonus to Reaction Rolls stands alone and is very thematic for a yamabushi who has learned the magic of creation from the Kami directly.
That's biggest for theme and story, imho. The obligations regarding Sin and the benefits to On work similar to that for a Gakusho, so make sense.
For the one-per-day benefits, it gets interesting (and yet remains lesser than a Gakusho who can do similar things without limit). It says to roll a Theology/Magic averaged BCS (for my guy, this is BCS 9) and apply the effect number of that roll as a bonus if successful. Applying that (1/day) in that manner to the Exorcism or Magic Resistance he can do as a Shugenja is pretty cool. Then, speaking of it being paladin-like, a pious non-Gakusho can add the God's blessing to his damage rolls for a fight, too... assuming the fragile-as-glass Shugenja is going to do something like that. (That becomes more interesting when we're exploring the application of it to being Sohei Guards, not Shugenja.)

[jemmus]

Yes, it seems that Bushido wanted to have an arcane magic spellcaster like D&D and other fantasy RPGs did at the time. So they did a mash-up of Japan shinto shamanism and Chinese Tao magic. And as you said, they seem to have built some contradictions into the profession. He's a social outsider:
The Shugenja is not part of the mainstream of Nippon’s culture. While he may be attached to a powerful court or temple, even raised to Samurai status, he is essentially an outsider.

But he's also a scholar who provides a mundane service within society:
The Shugenja’s main function in society outside of his magical services is as secular scribe and scholar.


And then there's this cryptic sentence:
[L]ike the Ronin, the magician who pursues his path alone is always suspect by the bulk of Nipponese society.
So society would expect them to group up? I suppose this ties into what you quoted: "Likewise, magical practitioners of similar aims would pool their knowledge and resources in a School."

Nice character concepts. There's the quote above about shugenja servings as scribes and scholars. That would imply having some formal education. I'm going to say that that's not strictly required for yamabushi-style shugenja. Then can learn shugenja spellcasting through working with the kami in nature. But it would seem they do need to be literate (in katakana, hiragana or kanji) for the rules on creating spell scrolls. The kamunushi at Fuujin shrine on Neno-san could have taught the character that, or perhaps a tutor at his childhood home did.

[ffilz]

OK, more work done on Kimura Hiroshi

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ue&sd=true

Still trying to decide Fine Art skill and pick from the short list. Armorer and Bowyer in some ways are obvious but I'm not sure what we determined the utility would be. Physician and Hawking would be neat but Hawking for a Low Ronin? (something he was into before his family fell from grace?).

Also currently written up with a 3-man Dai-Kyu but I guess he'd be better off with a 2-man Han-Kyu since he can fire that in 2nd action.

I thought Toshizo would be able to shoot two arrows per turn with a han-kyu. But shoot han-kyu is a primary action, and its not listed as one of the second actions on p. 62.

Oh I need to read more carefully. I saw shooting dai-kyu and Han-kyu in separate lists.

OK< read more carefully... If your Zanshin is > 1 you can get extra Han-Kyu shots per detailed turn but still only one Dai-Kyu shot. So unless size and weight of bow is an issue, starting characters might as well use Dai_Kyu. So Dai-Kyu it is for Hiroshi.

Gah, and still undecided on Armory and Bowyer vs. other skills, though instead of Physician, considering Tea Ceremony and then Hawking.

Part of me likes the idea of a low status Ronin scrounging and taking care of his armor and weapons. But the higher status skills as an attempt to improve status also look interesting.

It looks like Hawking also includes some "woodsey" knoweledge? That part might actually be interesting as well as having a trained hawk.