5e Basic & Hardcore Mode Game --Fully Subscribed--

[Eris]

I'm sorry, but I can't take any more players at this point. If openings occur down the road I'll re-open Requests to Join. Thanks!

I am interested in running a 5e Basic Rules game with some of the 5e Hardcore Mode rules added. The former is free to download at the site below. The latter is $3.50 on drivethru (and if you like it you should buy it), but the link below goes to an online version that is good enough for use in play.

A bit about what I'm thinking about:

• Using DnD_BasicRules and 5e Hardcore Mode and nothing more. Well, almost nothing more. For one thing this means:
   
  • Classes: Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue
  • Races: Human, Dwarf, Elf and Halfling
  • One Archetype for each of those classes (Champion, Life, Evoker, Thief are the four in Basic)
  • If you have your heart set on something not in this list we can talk, but I don't want to deviate much from the Basic 4x4 model
     
• Most of the 5e Hardcore Mode, but I'm still debating with myself to what exactly I'm adding and how. I'm almost definitely using:
   
  • Max out at 10 levels...total over all classes you take
  • Magic: Spells by level, Levelx3 known, Intx2 prepared, and Roll 10+ to Cast, etc.
  • Skills and Proficiencies: I'd like to just use Ability Mods with no Proficiencies, that is probably going to far, but certainly Binary--you are or you aren't when it comes to a skill. Class type & level should play a role here!
  • Zones: Here & There; simplified movement; no attacks of opportunity; Theater of the Mind style combat.
  • Agreed Initiative: I like simultaneous actions for PBP games where the DM puts the actions into a logical narritive format. However, some players really like tactical group play, and I don't blame them. Maybe a short planning session among players as to what they plan and then present it to the DM would make tactical play work better than it usually does in forum games. That needs to be worked out...
  • Advantage/Disadvantage: for a lot of things..."The Upper Hand" certainly & maybe for skills where Proficiencies used to be, but that needs to be thought out/discussed
  • Pure Hit Dice: No mods to HD when leveling up, maybe 3d6 down the line to gen Ability Scores,
  • Leveling Up: Old style variable XP for different classes
  • Death, Injury & Healing: For sure make death more deadly, HP10- you're dead!, below HP0-3,2,1, you're dead; I like the Rest/Medical Aid/Grit Your Teeth! mechanic for recovery; I'm not sure about the Injured rules though.
  • NO Zymer's Candle!: If the PC's need to run, they should RUN!, not get bailed out by a game mechanic.
• Everybody starts at 2nd Level. Okay, let's say instead everyone starts with 900XP, that's 3rd level for everybody except Wizards...nope, I don't want Wizards to start at 3rd level and get Fireball right out of the gate, you gotta work for it!
   
• The game will be set in my version of the Nentir Vale, it is a Points of Light style game. The Nentir Vale was once a prosperous land of cities and towns with much trade and commerce among those that lived along the river system that made up the Silver River, then it was invaded by hordes of evil Orcs, Goblins, and other monsters who sacked and pillaged the whole area before retreating beyond the mountains of the north. Today only a few towns (Winterhaven, Lakeside, Dragontooth, Hammerfast and Fallcrest) and scattered villages remain with most of the lands wild and dangerous! Monsters still infest many areas and tribes of both monsters and humans roam the plains and hills scratching out their living by looting ruins, stealing, and attacking the few remaining points of light in the vast darkness. Order is just now beginning to return as trade from Fallcrest to Lakeside along the Silver and Dragon Rivers has begun. Parties are just now beginning to go out from the safety of the towns into the countryside to push the evil back and reclaim some of what was lost. This is no place for the tame or the timid, the Silver Vale needs Adventurers!
   
• I might use my existing Nentir Vale Adventures and/or Lakeside & Beyond as the forum rather than applying for a new one. Both are set in same Nentir Vale setting. I'm more inclined to use the Lakeside & Beyond game if my players in there agreed to switch to 5e Basic because that party is just about to enter the ruins of a city with 3 (count 'em 3) missions and I could easily have a new group join the exiting group on these missions.
   
• Feel free to look at the games I run here, that's the style of game I run...pretty narrative, a lot of role playing and less roll playing.

If I get interest, I'll broach the subject to my existing players and see if they are interested in a merger. If they aren't and I still have a lot of interest (5 or 6 solid inquiries), I'll still run this, I'll just apply for a new forum.

Hope to hear from you...

[Rex]

I am in. Looking forward to giving a stripped down and 5e a chance.

[shaidar]

I'm willing to give this a try.

It's about time I gave 5e a go and this sounds like a good/fun way to try it.

[hedgeknight]

Sure, what's one more game!
Seriously though, I'm running a 5E game, but would really like to see it from a player's perspective.
Gonna be fun!

[Edeldhur]

I would like to be a part of this one if there is still room

[Eris]

Well, it does look like there is interest! At this point I think 5 people have said they'd like to play.

Marullus
Rex
shaidar
hedgeknight
Edeldhur

With five that's certainly a go! Give me a few days to get this set up.

[Rex]

Excellent.

[Edeldhur]

Sounds good!

[shaidar]

Great. This should be good.

[Edeldhur]

Now to mull over what an almost 5e noob should play

[shaidar]

Now to mull over what an almost 5e noob should play

I was just thinking that myself.

[Edeldhur]

Now to mull over what an almost 5e noob should play

I was just thinking that myself.

Actually no wait, it is easy. Completely forgot it was Basic. Fighter for life!

[Marullus]

I'm in!

It's about time I gave 5e a go and this sounds like a good/fun way to try it.

While this will be fun, I'll apply the word of caution that this HARDMODE mod is radically different from 5e and I wouldn't use this as a test case. We're modding and houseruling out about half of the core mechanics and most of the balancing inherent in the game design. This hack is a lot closer to Shadowdark and DCC than it is 5e.

Okay, let's say instead everyone starts with 900XP, that's 3rd level for everybody except Wizards...nope, I don't want Wizards to start at 3rd level and get Fireball right out of the gate, you gotta work for it!

Is your re-write of the magic system allowing spell levels as character levels? Normally a wizard wouldn't get Fireball (a 3rd level spell) until they were a 5th level character.

• Using DnD_BasicRules and 5e Hardcore Mode and nothing more. Well, almost nothing more. For one thing this means:
  
  • Classes: Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue
  • Races: Human, Dwarf, Elf and Halfling
  • One Archetype for each of those classes (Champion, Life, Evoker, Thief are the four in Basic)
  • If you have your heart set on something not in this list we can talk, but I don't want to deviate much from the Basic 4x4 model

One of the strengths of 5e is the variety of options that come together between race / background / class / archetype based on the wider span of options than 1e. With the amount of mods already being made, perhaps consider allowing consideration of wider classes and archetypes and just approve them on a case by case basis based on what people ask for?

The Basic Rules do cover the Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Paladin, Monk, Ranger, Sorcerer, and Warlock in addition to the base four listed, without additional sources being added.

This page provides all of the class archetypes from official material without making any additional purchases. If we're starting at 3rd level, all the characters will have picked and gotten archetype approved as we begin so no worries about later haggling.

Skills and Proficiencies: I'd like to just use Ability Mods with no Proficiencies, that is probably going to far, but certainly Binary--you are or you aren't when it comes to a skill. Class type & level should play a role here!

You're saying several contradictory things here, so I want to clarify?

• If using "ability mods with no proficiencies" then the ability mods apply to the skills - all skills, like base 5e. This means that class and level are completely written out and only ability skill rolls matter. [A notable flaw of 5e made worse.]
• The HARDMODE rules have the classes choose proficiencies like normal in 5e. They change it so that if you don't have proficiency, you add NO mods (neither ability mod nor Proficiency Bonus). If you do have proficiency you add the ability score AND the Proficiency Bonus. [This sounds most like what I think you're wanting... class matters because it chooses proficiency, level matters because of the scaling o the proficiency bonus, and it becomes binary with the HARDMODE change eliminating ability score mod from non-proficient skills.]
• Having binary proficiencies and rolling only the ability mod for the ones you're proficient in eliminates only the Proficiency Bonus - this removes theinfluence of character level.

[*]NO Zymer's Candle!: If the PC's need to run, they should RUN!, not get bailed out by a game mechanic. [/list]

I had never heard of this... what a weird mechanic to introduce in HARDMODE!

[*]The game will be set in my version of the Nentir Vale, it is a Points of Light style game. The Nentir Vale was once a prosperous land of cities and towns with much trade and commerce among those that lived along the river system that made up the Silver River, then it was invaded by hordes of evil Orcs, Goblins, and other monsters who sacked and pillaged the whole area before retreating beyond the mountains of the north. Today only a few towns (Winterhaven, Lakeside, Dragontooth, Hammerfast and Fallcrest) and scattered villages remain with most of the lands wild and dangerous! Monsters still infest many areas and tribes of both monsters and humans roam the plains and hills scratching out their living by looting ruins, stealing, and attacking the few remaining points of light in the vast darkness. Order is just now beginning to return as trade from Fallcrest to Lakeside along the Silver and Dragon Rivers has begun. Parties are just now beginning to go out from the safety of the towns into the countryside to push the evil back and reclaim some of what was lost. This is no place for the tame or the timid, the Silver Vale needs Adventurers!

This is EPIC and I can't wait!

[shaidar]

<shrugs>

Still sounds cool. I like shadowdark and DCC.

[Eris]

Marullus, I'm still debating how to handle skills/proficiencies with myself.

How Hardcore Mode does it.
Hardcore Mode says take the Top Line Proficiency Bonus (+2 for 1-4, +3 for 5-8, +4 for 9-12, etc) ONLY. Apply it to any Skills you choose to be Proficient with when you create the character on a binary basis...if you picked that skill you get the bonus+Ability Mod, but if you didn't you get neither on Checks. For example: (I know Clerics wouldn't normally pick Slight of Hand, but let's say these did.)

Tom is a 3rd Level Cleric (+2 Proficiency Bonus) with +2 Dex and picked Slight of Hand. He rolls 1d20+2+2 against DC.
Bob is exactly the same as Tom, but didn't pick Slight of Hand. He rolls 1d20 only against DC.

When Tom and Bob reach 5th Level Cleric their PB rises to +3, and Tom can apply that +3 to Slight of Hand, but Bob is still 1d20 only.

This is fairly close to the way 5e does it, but you are either skilled and get the bonus or you are not and don't get any bonus at all.

How Professor Dungeon Master (Deathbringer) does it.
Your PB is your Ability Mod, period. Specifically you distribute 8 points among the 6 Abilities as your Mods (none start higher than 4, or use a Standard Array 3/2/2/1/0/-1, or even roll 3d6 if you want). Each Ability is tied to a set of skills which match up to the ones in the 5e books, but they aren't referenced in play. When you roll a check you add appropriate Ability Mod + 1d20 against DC, nice and simple. When you go up in class you get another HD and access to spells, and on odd levels you get +1 to an Ability Mod of your choice which gives you a bonus in those skills as well.

Easiest, to use for DM and Players, I think. The downside is it doesn't allow for quite as much customization, I don't think, and Class abilities matter a lot and every PC needs to stay in their own lane and not dabble much in other Class abilities. Not the way we'd want to go if we're trying to stay closer to 5e

How Castles & Crusades does it.
You roll for Abilities, per usual and get the Mods the normal way. The chosen Class & Race gives you 2 or 3 Primary Abilities, the others are Secondary Abilities. When you roll a task you use Ability Mod+Class Level+1d20 against 12+DiffLevel when using a Primary Ability or against 18+DiffLevel when using a Secondary Ability. (Or in a common variant I'd use has you just add +5 when using a Primary Ability and nothing when using a Secondary Ability against a normal DC.) Difficulty Level tends to be a bit lower than 5e's suggested 5/10/15/20

This one works, but it's not 5e, so I'm not seriously considering this technique.

[Rex]

It doesn't matter to me which you go with.

[Eris]

It doesn't matter to me which you go with.

I'll figure it out as I go.

[Eris]

Okay, I am going to run this game. Whether it'll be in a current forum or one I request I'll figure out, but if you are interested in playing let's start looking at characters.

Let's Make Characters!

To create a character with the Basic Rules only, take a look at the Javascript DDNext Character Generator. It walks you through the whole thing for the four classes and four races. There are a lot of options there, but only the ones with an arrow meaning they are part of the free Basic rules can be selected. You, can of course use other software or build a PC manually, but this is a fun program to play around with.

1. Abilities: 3d6 (or 4d6 best 3 if you really prefer), place as you like; if you don't have a 14, or better, you may re-roll; if you'd rather
2. Races: Human, Halfling, Elf, Dwarf. No variant Humans!
3. Gender: either
4. Background: Limited in Basic Rules, pick an appropriate one (we can talk if you want something else)
5. Alignment: Good or Neutral, no Evil PC, if you please!
6. Level: Go ahead and choose a 3rd Level
7. Classes: Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard. (if you want something else, we can talk)
8. Don't Multi-class! Pick a class and stick with it.
9. We aren't playing with Feats, so ignore them.
10. Skills: Choose your skills (I'll deal with how they are used)
11. Languages: you get Common and 1 or more from a list.
12. Weapons: pick some appropriate ones.
13. Equipment: there are some pre-packaged kits to make it easy
14. Description, Name and Personality to finish it off.
15. If you used the above software you can have it generate a printout for your character which you can save/cut and paste, etc.

[shaidar]

Cool. I'm thinking fighter or cleric, human or dwarf. Maybe.

[ybn1197]

If you still have an opening, I would love to get in on this.