Thematic/Setting Questions

[Keehnelf]

I'll write more about the explicit and implied setting elsewhere, but this is a good spot to dump any questions you might have about the default setting and the ways in which our game might differ or have more detail than that!

[Das]

Where might this game take place? I was curious simply for language bases and the like. Wouldn't make much sense to speak German in Spain for example.

[Keehnelf]

My plan was the northern/northeastern Alps, in the area of Bavaria right up against modern-day Austria, unless someone had a preference for elsewhere.

[Das]

Do you have a date? Also are you planning to be historically accurate with stuff? Sorry should have asked all this at one time.

[Keehnelf]

No worries at all--that's what the thread is for. I was thinking not long before the "official" date of the game (which is 1220). Probably between 1205 and 1215 somewhere.

And I was planning to be reasonably in tune with historical events of the time, but I like the location because it's remote enough that the events of the wider world will be slow to reach it.

[Starbeard]

Awesome choice of location! As soon as you mentioned the general region I thought that I'd somehow work my magus' history into the abbey of St Gallen, and it turns out that's exactly where the saga will be! Only a few years before the saga's proposed start date the abbot of St Gallen was declared a prince-abbot, just a year or so before the king who appointed him was assassinated. It makes a nice plot hook for why my magus is no longer at the abbey/town, if he or his ilk weren't supporters.

A couple of quick questions about the map/setting:

Kontanz was a pretty big deal at the time—it was a pretty wealthy town, and the cathedral city of the diocese that covered the whole region. I think it would be pretty cool to add that location, especially if we planned on doing any politicking.

Also, I noticed St Gallen isn't on the map, but Sankt Gallenkirch is. I hadn't heard of it, but after a little digging I read that it's a pretty small village even now. It was given its own parish (i.e., village status) at the end of the 15th century, and in the early 14th it was given a chapel-at-ease (i.e., hamlet status); admittedly I didn't look very hard, but I didn't find any history of the village earlier than 1300, which makes me wonder if St Gallenkirch is supposed to be the abbey and town of St Gallen.

Not that I care either way about either of them. I just happen to research a topic that involves the history of this area, so I'm prone to be needlessly nitpicky about these things. I swear it won't come up once we start playing, though: playing pseudo-history makes me just as happy, or more happy, than playing super-history!

[Keehnelf]

Hah, thanks for the input! I will add Kontanz later today and incorporate that into the setting--and I might be misremembering but I think Saint Gallen might be slightly off the map to the southwest and that's why only the abbey made it on there--but I will double check later today on that as well!

[AleBelly]

If I can call on my poor German skillls, kirche means church - if this was an important abbey it's almost certain St. Gallen and Gallenkirch are the same place.

[Keehnelf]

Unfortunately, it was almost always the case in the Middle Ages that (place) and abbey of (place) were separate locales, though close to one another. This allowed for a certain sanctity of remoteness for the monks and pilgrims as well as keeping it clear that the church authorities were not mired in the day-to-day politics of the town (though that was often a false impression).

[AleBelly]

Interesting...

[Starbeard]

That is generally the case, although were also some independent abbeys (usually Benedictine) with close temporal ties to the surrounding area, like St Gallen. The abbey was founded first, and what eventually became the town of St Gall grew around the abbey walls sort of like a service industry, or a university town. It had walls and fortifications just like a castle town would, except it was ruled by the monks. The monastery also ruled Rorschach for a time, but I can't remember when. A fun side effect of this independence was that the bishop of Konstanz and the Abbot of St Gallen were not always on good terms with one another.

Anyway, it's all a bit of a moot point, since we opted to start out way over on the complete other side of the map.

[Keehnelf]

Well, it could come into play soon enough since, as I said, it's less than 75 miles from one edge of the map to the other east-west

[Das]

Is there any chance we could flesh out other possible places of interest we might know of? Faerie hangouts, magical areas or monster rumors...I know that is what our "adventuring" time is for, but if there are some basically understood stuff that might be good for us to plan our conquest of Bavaria...er....I mean...research.

[Keehnelf]

Yeah, I'll be laying out some of the detail of the surrounding areas (as you know it) in the coming days. Feel free to toss out ideas that seem cool to you and I'll incorporate them as seems appropriate to me!

[Keehnelf]

I've posted an updated version of the map, with a second Covenant located on it down in the lowlands.

I've given it a good bit of consideration and I'll be combining some real history with some totally reconsidered made-up history about certain places that suit the kind of atmosphere I want to create. Please feel free to give feedback about these choices, as they're mostly not set in stone. I just wanted to communicate my intended relationship to the actual history of places (and fidelity to specific timelines).

[Starbeard]

Sounds great to me. I prefer the approach you're taking, it makes things easier on the GM and keeps away the opportunity for anyone to call shenanigans because historically, etc., once the game's started.

If I end up going with a magus from a political house, I'll probably write some short and vague backstory involving political strife between Konstanz & St Gallen, each supporting rival kings of Germany or some such. That's about as historical as I plan to get with my guy.

As for fantastical additions, being seated on the upper Rhine gives all sorts of opportunities to add in some great material inspired from medieval German romances and epics; maybe some Rhinemaidens or Niebelungen? Some themes blatantly ripped out of Arthurian legend and given a Germanic spin, perhaps?

[Keehnelf]

That all sounds great! I'm on board.

[Das]

Suggestions:

Wolpertinger - Straight from Bavarian Folklore Hybrid creature of the Alpine Mountains. Head of a rabbit, body of a squirrel, antlers of a deer, wins and legs of a pheasant.

Skiapodes – these people were known for having one leg with a very large foot. The description by the ancient writer Pliny the Elder, that “they are in the habit of lying on their backs, during the time of the extreme heat, and protect themselves from the sun by the shade of their feet,” doesn’t seem to have changed much during the Middle Ages, and they are often depicted with their one foot up.

Giants and Dragons of course

Amphisbaena A two headed venomous serpent

Anka (alias Angka) giant bird

Canocephali (also spelled Cynocephalus): men with the heads of dogs. These dog-headed men were supposed to live somewhere in the East. Purportedly, they sent a delegation to the Pope in Avignon. In some accounts, they are carnivorous, and in others they are vegetarians who model their lives on principles akin to that of Beneditine monks.

Capricorn: A fanciful beast with the body of a fish and the head and forelimbs of a goat, precursor to the Zodiac symbol.

Echeneis (Greek, "ship-detaining")--a classical and bestiary fish that can stop a ship going full sail by attaching itself to the hull.

Gryllus :Humorous monster in medieval manuscripts, usually depicted with two legs, a head, a tail, and no body or arms. Often furry or maned.

Leshy (Russian forest spirit)

Leviathan (Hebrew sea monster)

Lillith, Mother of Demons (Hebrew) Adam's first wife, before Eve in the Hebrew Midrash tradition.

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Malebranche Demon (Dante, Inferno)

Obour A short-lived Serbian vampire-spirit that arises from the body of a slain spirit. It "lives" in undeath for forty nights, during which time to smears dung on walls, vandalizes property, and tears the udders of cows to drink the mixture of blood and milk. It often appears as a blue ball of light or a shadow. At the end of those forty nights, it will rise as a full-fledged vampire.
Odontotyrannos huge one-horned beast in the Alexander romance. Takes 1300 soldiers to drag its body it is so huge.


Pastinaca--gigantic fetid weasel, bigger than an elephant, mentioned in medieval bestiaries.
Pazuzu, the demon (Assyrian)

*Vampire (eastern Europe)

Werewolf (aka lycanthrope, Le Loup-Garou)

Will-of-the-Wisp, the spirit (will o' wisp)

Wyvern (also Wyver): a heraldic dragon or cockatrice that possesses only two legs, but has wings.

Yale (heraldric, also appears in Pliny). Hippopotamus-sized creature with black fur, elephant tail, boar-jaws, and movable horns that can point forwards or backwards.

[Starbeard]

Okay, I've been thinking about it and had to put some ideas down. Take or leave any of them at your leisure:

First, a database of creatures pulled out of medieval bestiaries: http://bestiary.ca. Bestiaries are a weird thing, intended as much for instruction in how to read a text for theological allegory as for being a good old read about crazy monsters, but even the allegorical stuff can be twisted into something that makes for innovative creature encounters (ravens causing lapses in judgment?!).

Germanic and Anglo-Saxon charms are great fun, and might give inspiration for some rituals or the magical properties of certain reagents, but seeing as the magic system in AM is already pretty fleshed out, I'm not sure if they'd actually be much use:
Merseburg charms
Bald's Leechbook
Nine Herbs Charm

Most German epics and romances during the time were Arthurian legends, sometimes Germanic myth, historical wars or stories of peasants becoming knights. All are re-worked into a modern court/political setting seeped both in chivalry and satire. Supernatural omens, dwarves, nixies and sprites, dragons, griffon islands and the odd wizard get thrown in for good measure. Magicians in Germanic literature were almost invariably depicted as Arabs or as Christians well-versed in Arabic learning, even Merlin.

The Nibelungenlied is one such epic, and has the tantalizing plot hook of the Rheingold—a massive (and possibly cursed, depending on the version) treasure once owned by Nibelung, now lost forever somewhere at the bottom of the Rhine. Other stories note that the Rhine is protected by water-nixies (Wagner put these together to create the Rhinemaidens, who guard the treasure). Who Nibelung is changes from story to story—he's been a Burgundian noble, the Burgundian race, a god, a race of weird evil men, and—after the middle ages—a dwarf or a whole race of dwarves. I think that basically means you could have Nibelung or the Nibelungs be whatever you want.

[Keehnelf]

I like this all. I'm sketching some of the political stuff (with license) for now so as to create a backdrop against which to paint the Order of Hermes activity, then I'll be populating some areas with known supernatural features and then leave plenty of unknown stuff out there as well!